Getting mugged

[stephen]

Hi guys i have a bit of a concern when i see a lot of the photos here of back allies and night shots of what looks like lonely and isolated spots by people on here ,I dont feel very comforatble walking around with my D70 on show as i feel it is an invite for low life scum to perhaps mugg you or try and get your expensive gear off you.I feel even more uncomfortable and vunerable with the tripod as i feel i am in a semi permanent position

I was wondering who else has had this thought cross their mind and if anyone has actually had problems before???.You dont get any better at photography with the camera stuck under your sock drawer so you gotta get out their but at what expense??I have done 5 years of boxing so i am not really fearful for my own personal safety but more of being ripped off or hassled.Perhaps i have really suspicious mind or something but it is one of the things that really annoys myself and i feel i would shoot more and enjoy my time with the D70 more if i could ignore this thought a bit .

Thanks Stephen

[Michael]

When I do jobs in some questionable places I hire security, but in reality the security is just a friend of mine (with a security licence) im getting the client to pay for.

other times when thats not so handy, I take my monopod with me never had any troubles but it does cross my mind from tim to time.

[Zeeke]

I'm 6'2ish and 135kg.. They'd wanna be bigger then me... or be a few of them before they try and take my gear.. plus when im out in enviroments like that, I wear steelcap work boots...


If they knew me tho, they'd know im as harmless as a fly.. i just try and make myself look tough

Tim

[Dug]

Be aware of your surroundings It sounds stupid but, Don't look like a victim!
You can see and smell victims, they walk round with a big target on them.

If you feel uncomfortable leave move find somewhere else, if you are stuck in a situation, look people in the eye and start talking to them, ask if you can take there photo put them on the wrong foot take control of the situation, remember they are nervous and afraid too they will pick on a soft target not a hard one.

I also carry a small Dick Smith screamer alarm 110 db I use it to secure my gear if I need to take my eyes off it to shoot, I can also hook it up incase anyone grabs my gear.

Recently I have only had one person attempt to flog my stuff he was about 15 and skinny. unfortunatly he fell over and I tripped my knee accidently landing on his chest when I stood up I accidently stood on his hand I don't think he will be doing that again soon


Take care, be aware, bug out if you need to, if you don't feel comfortable leave, but don't be afraid, being afraid is the dangerous thing.


there is a story of an 80 year old American who was mugged in Florida, he dislocated his attackers shoulder and broke his arm in 2 places.

The 80 year old the mugger picked on was a Ranger who had landed on Omaha Beach D Day and fought through Europe in WW2 You have to love that!

[stephen]

Very clumsy of you Dug you really should look where you are walking In this day and age you would get the guy who was trying to rob you sueing your arse after you gave him a good hiding >Probably win in court as well

[Paul]

unfortunatly he fell over and I tripped my knee accidently landing on his chest when I stood up I accidently stood on his hand I don't think he will be doing that again soon

 ROFLMAO!

Nice work Dug!

[myarhidia]

I feel even more uncomfortable and vunerable with the tripod

Personally, I would feel the opposite if I had a tripod. As effective as a baseball bat however legitimate to carry.

[Dug]

Very clumsy of you Dug you really should look where you are walking In this day and age you would get the guy who was trying to rob you sueing your arse after you gave him a good hiding >Probably win in court as well

I did nothing! I am just clumsy I don't think I can be sued for being clumsy can I?

[Matt. K]

Problem is simple to solve. Trade your D70 for a Canon.

[Michael]

Problem is simple to solve. Trade your D70 for a Canon.

rofl

Bad pun you go to the corner now!

[firsty]

Problem is simple to solve. Trade your D70 for a Canon.

these ones should have the desired effect

[Grev]

Problem is simple to solve. Trade your D70 for a Canon.

[beetleboy]

I recently had some guys following me in town (I know, lil old Adelaide!) when I was carrying my camera backpack and tripod - it was night time and they were drunk and it was pretty obvious they were keen to mess with me so I swung the tripod off my shoulder and held it like a baseball bat.....did the trick!

Until they realised they had seen me getting out of my car and while I was in the Town Hall working they bent one of my windscreens to a state of disrepair.

ASSHOLES.

Liam =] PS - off topic, but, why do people assume that us photog's make an absolute fortune? I was approached by about 4 people on friday while photographing products and shops in a local shopping centre by guys saying "bet you make a killing out of this?!" What makes them think that?!

[PiroStitch]

Good old trusty heavy tripod

Ditto to being aware of your environment. I observe the surroundings first and wait to see if it's all clear. All clear, then shoot. Not all clear, walk away and come back some other time. Try not to look suspiciously at groups as well as most times it's the misinterpretations of stares that start fights.

Also just be aware of where the cop shops are around the area.

Having the ability to run helps too

[birddog114]

I know my gears, my abilities and my invested money in my hobby, so I don't take part of what you guys often called: Night shooting.

Yes, night shootings are fun but if I do it I'll have to minimize the risk by just taking few bits with me and with maybe a group of people as family members, friends and not at or around the dark sides, coz I shoot Nikon not Canon

Other, night shooting with lugging backpack and tripod around, then walk into a restaurant after the end with all those gears is not comfortable, packing them in the boot of the car is another high risk.

Yes, there're many bad guys around, even having tripods or baseball bats as part of your gear won't help much these days + don't show off or giving out lot of information to the view of public or on the net about your gathering as meeting point, shooting places, just a precaution and stir away all those hawk eyes.

[O1]

Hi All
Interesting thread and thought I should comment as Photography should be one of the risk free things that we do.

All of my gear is insured. If someone was to threaten me (seriously) I would hand it straight over. The reason for this is that whoever is threatening you might be a whole lot more desperate than you are and willing to go to whatever lenghts to get your gear. The fact is there are some desperate people out there who would think nothing of hurting you.

I was in a situation in England where I saw just how bad things can get and it was over alot less than a camera.

So rarther than confront and take the risk just insure your gear and shoot when and where you like

Just an angle that had not been mentioned

Cheers

Owen

[birddog114]

Owen,
Insurance is another issue!
Please don't hold on to that very firm, and there were not many fruity results as I have seen in many cases + your lost + your waiting time for a cheque in the mail, your fight back with many phone calls, maybe court appearance, legal issues etc... and finally they send you to their preffered suppliers to get what they want to supply you, not you want to get or trade off.

Even you hand to the bad guys your gears upon their demand, it still hurts you and makes you sick and it's the last avenue to bail you out.

Try to avoid and prevent the accident & incident and not to: how to lodge the claim for compensation.

Insurance policy is a backup and giving you peace in mind but at the end of the day, it turns sour, sometimes it's not the way you wish.

[johnd]

I agree with both Owen and Birdy, but not with the tripod wielding theme.

Firstly, don't get into the situation.
Secondly, if you do get into the situation, don't risk you're life. Give em the gear and worry about the paper work afterwards.

Cheers
John

[moz]

I'm somewhat careful, but I rely more on my ability to win most fights by at least 50 metres. I'm a paid up member of the "run'o'way school of self defence". I realise many of you would need to train quite hard but I think it's a technique worth learning.

Anywhere really dodgy I tend to carry just the camera and leave the bag and stuff at home, just to reduce possible losses. I also turn the LCD off so people have to look pretty closely to realise that it's digital. The other thing is having a bag that doesn't scream camera - the Crumpler just says "expensive"

[Dug]

The other thing is having a bag that doesn't scream camera

Another very good idea ! a cheap and nasty back pack blends in a lot more than a flashy camera bag. Same for your clothing and any jewelry, dress down, keep it to a minimum. Old Jeans old T shirt nothing logo or anything flashy.

Boots or cheap trainers, no expensive footwear.

[Raskill]

I find a canister of O.C. spray can be an advantage in any fight. Of course in NSW it's a prohibited weapon, so I wouldn't recommend carrying it.

I never would when I'm carrying all my gear......

[Dug]

If one was to carry OC spray, not that I would, where would you buy such a thing?

[Raskill]

In NSW you can't. It's an offence under the summary offences act to own/possess/sell it. Of the top of my head, only Police can have it, it's also illegal for security gaurds to have it.

I think the best option is not to carry your gear around at night by yourself, like Michael said, have some form of security with you.

[Dug]

Was it here that people were discussing pocket Tasers and electric shock delivering devices?

There was a story of a biker who imported one and took it to the pub. After showing his mates he put it in his back pocket and sat down to enjoy a beer.

Sadly for him this set off the Taser that caused a him to start fitting and a simultaneous release of both bowel and bladder contents. this caused the continued discharge of the Taser device and increased the severity of the charge because of the wet clothing.

Finally the batteries went flat and the poor unfortunate was taken to hospital suffering severe heart arrhythmia and acute embarrassment.

[Raskill]

If it's true, it's funny

My understanding with Tazer is that it sends electrical impulses at a rate and frequency that don't interfere with the bodies electrical system, or the heart (including pace maker). I've seen a few work mates have it used on them and even the very toughest (and I mean tough) can't stand it. Provided the hooks get into you (or your clothing) then the 55000 volts you get will drop you quick smart.

[Big Red]

why not buy some expensive looking clothes and put them on your mate ... you know, the one who can't run as fast as you

[whiz]

Your best bet for gear carrying in dodgey areas is the humble white plastic shopping bag. Seems to work in all parts of the world where they're common.
Upmarket would be the green enviro bag around Aus.

Pepper spray can be obtained in a few states in Australia. You can buy it packaged as dog repellent.
Works a treat. (on dogs, but so does fresh lemon juice in a squirty bottle. Aim at the eyes.)
Ring up and ask for dog repellent at your gun shops. They'll probably know what you're after.

[birddog114]

Your best bet for gear carrying in dodgey areas is the humble white plastic shopping bag. Seems to work in all parts of the world where they're common.
Upmarket would be the green enviro bag around Aus.

Pepper spray can be obtained in a few states in Australia. You can buy it packaged as dog repellent.
Works a treat. (on dogs, but so does fresh lemon juice in a squirty bottle. Aim at the eyes.)
Ring up and ask for dog repellent at your gun shops. They'll probably know what you're after.

Actually any aerosol spray can will do the job, g to supermarket and get one garlic and olive oil spray (small size), it can help by pulling it out and spray to their faces. they will run coz they think you have the right tool

[moz]

Actually any aerosol spray can will do the job, g to supermarket and get one garlic and olive oil spray (small size),

I prefer the patch-up size paint cans. Sure, the cops might get antsy if you're in a graffiti-prone area, but nothing beats a witness statement of "he's about 1.8m tall, white except for a streak of orange paint across his eyes".

[Dug]

has anyone found a spray with a bit of range to the spray?

something that squirts a stream rather than a mist?

[Manta]

As Piro/Wayne has already mentioned, the best form of defence is sizing up an area before or as you enter it. If you absolutely have to shoot there, give yourself the time to scope it out during daylight hours so you can familiarise yourself with the area beforehand, noting anything of interest, i.e. potential escape routes, best place to park the 'getaway' car, well-lit zones with plenty of people traffic, police stations, etc. I know this is a pretty obvious thing to do but it makes sense to know your ground beforehand.

Obviously, things can go awry at anytime of the day and it pays to have a few things in your mind that will become reflex actions should you ever be accosted. My advice echoes what has already been mentioned - be prepared to handover whatever you have to in order to create an opportunity for escape. Even if the assailant looks like a pipsqueak that your grandmother could roll, he may have a group of large angry mates lurking nearby who could really ruin your night.

Even the smallest weed becomes a deadly threat if he happens to be holding a blade. The safest distance from someone flashing a sharp is around 9 metres. It seems a lot but it's been tested in many situations and the speed of the knife-wielder plus the reaction-time of the victim means that distance gets closed very quickly. Knife equals potential death. Even those with the right training never lose sight of that fact. For the average punter: Don't muck with it but rather run like billy-o.

Not drawing attention to yourself is a great way to look after yourself. Neutral coloured clothes (not all black - you look like a burglar) and nothing flashy. Leave the Aston Martin and the Rolex at home; take the filthy Torana and strap on the Tissot - it could prove a handy bargaining chip if you've got a watch you can give away. I sometimes carry a spare wallet as well; with maybe a few fives and a ten in it. In the majority of cases, the mugger will leave you alone if he thinks he's gotten something from you - they get angry if they reckon they'll be leaving empty-handed so an empty wallet may make the situation worse.

As far as your camera gear is concerned, you've got to weigh it all up - what is it really worth to you? I take Birdy's points about the hassles you'll probably go through with insurance but I'd rather be dealing with paperwork and courtrooms than have my family have to decide whether to turn off my life-support.

It's a sad indictment on society that we even have to have these conversations but I reckon the best analogy with all this is what I used to teach 4WD trainee drivers: I'll give you the techniques and the skills to get out of a tough situation but do you REALLY have to get yourself in there in the first place? Perhaps that's a question we should ask ourselves as photographers. I'm not for a moment suggesting we should just stay at home, nice and safe, and never take risks. All I'm suggesting is a few ways to minimise that risk if we decide to go to places that are potentially hazardous. Like I said in the beginning - have a few responses in your mind and train yourself to react instinctively. Sadly, hesitation may be fatal.

Sorry for the long-winded post but I've spent a lot of time in surveillance and security and I'm pretty passionate about this stuff.

[gstark]

Actually any aerosol spray can will do the job, g to supermarket and get one garlic and olive oil spray (small size),

I prefer the patch-up size paint cans. Sure, the cops might get antsy if you're in a graffiti-prone area, but nothing beats a witness statement of "he's about 1.8m tall, white except for a streak of orange paint across his eyes".

That would be my choice.

has anyone found a spray with a bit of range to the spray?

something that squirts a stream rather than a mist?

That woukd be a penis?

[Greg B]

All right for you young blokes, I'd have to be too close to the target or wouldn't make the distance.

[Oneputt]

[moz]

has anyone found a spray with a bit of range to the spray?

Ask your local taggers, as there is a wide range of tips available and one of them is bound to be what you want. Or just ask at your local spraycan supplier.

[phillipb]

All right for you young blokes, I'd have to be too close to the target or wouldn't make the distance.

Yea but look at it from the bright side, as you get older and your prostate gets bigger, you'll be able to hit two targets at the same time.

[Ronza]

Hrmh, I just try and stow my camera when its not needed. Put the phat white lens back into the bag and look like a Uni Student rather than a guy with lots of lens in his bag.

That and sunglasses, makes you look hardcore

[Dug]

White lens? your safe,

cheers doug

[birddog114]

And sunglass in the evening at some dark corners
Look like Steve Wonder