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Hi ya'll

Did a little photoshoot last night with a street dancer friend, a first time model shoot for me. I art directed and photographed as she wanted the serious expression, opting not to smile and a real urban hip hop look with a touch of glam.
I don't think i technically got the lighting right but the style is there, this being a trial run for a proper shoot next week.

archway on argyle strret the rocks, backlighting was gorgeous, SB800 TTL, 50mm 1.4 ISO 400 50/100 for all shots


We were pretty stiff first time round, no rapour going on, but we gradually got into the rhythm.


bridge overpass argyle street, for a moment there the wind was blowing her hair and she looked totally funktified, but i missed the shot!


Top level The Glenmore hotel, the rocks, the lighting is great up there.


walking back along george street to wynyard
thought i should try a non busy background, same settings0 but shutter increased to 100


water fountain at grosvenor place


Hip Hoppin' to the lush sounds of traffic on George Street, at this time we figured natural is often best.


A nice glance back


I thought it would be an easy shoot, but nightshoots are hard as you have to find good light and i also thought being a dancer she would be a natural in front of the camera but we often had to work out poses that worked in the light available, it was a great learning experience.

Wendellt,
When can you organize a model shoot for Sydney members?
You can drag all of your contacts over and give us a chance please!

Nice work wendell.

The bokeh is fabulous and the lighting is great.
Most of the shots however look a little soft to me. How were you firing the flash - was it directed directly at her?

Birddog114 wrote:Wendellt,
When can you organize a model shoot for Sydney members?
You can drag all of your contacts over and give us a chance please!

She is not a model more of a dancer birdy, I am working on the group model shoot thing for next year possibly the fashion week trials, how many people are we talking about here? regarding my friends they wouldn't feel comfortable with a group shoot, but i'll put the idea past them.

Matt

All images are soft because i used manual focus because in the dark the camera can't focus all that well. The scenes look brighter becuase of the f1.4 and ISO400 but in actuality the scenes were quite dark.

I used the sc28 remote ttl cord so i could position the flash at different angles, i tried direct, more to the side, 2 'o' clock lighting etc
the d2x in one hand the flash in the other.

It may be a good time to get a DK-17 magnifier.

Wendell - I really like what you have accomplished with this series of shots. Maybe use the C mode on the D2X and shoot a series of rapid shots

#5 and #6 are great Wendell.
They are soft, but you intended to have that "soft focus" look, didn't you?

Good stuff Wendell, very nice work

wendellt wrote:All images are soft because i used manual focus because in the dark the camera can't focus all that well. The scenes look brighter becuase of the f1.4 and ISO400 but in actuality the scenes were quite dark.

Wendell,
you used the D2X and an f1.4 lens and couldn't use AF (with flash) ? Were you shooting in a black hole ??

Aussie Dave wrote:

wendellt wrote:All images are soft because i used manual focus because in the dark the camera can't focus all that well. The scenes look brighter becuase of the f1.4 and ISO400 but in actuality the scenes were quite dark.

Wendell,
you used the D2X and an f1.4 lens and couldn't use AF (with flash) ? Were you shooting in a black hole ??

Aussie Dave

I am not technically proficient yet, still experimenting, working things out, the red focus assistance light on the sb800 just did not work for some reason, so i had to focus manual, when i took the shot the flash worked, beats me...

Chris, I will try c mode, i don't usually use it because i am shutter actuation economical

Alpha thanks for your thumbs up

Trevor, I like shallow depth of field and soft images but sometimes i want the focused area as sharp as can be, but i hardly get it right.
Actually i read your PDF lessons on the forum first time i visited, I learned a heap of valauable things, obviously being written very well from someone who knows what they are doing.

you have some nice shots there wendellt,

Im surprised however that the sb800 af did not help, I have found it to be very handy when shooting in the dark with a relatively close subject. Did you try the sb800 without the flash cord?

Thanks for sharing these. I would say that the first is my favourite as it shows the model with some attitude and looks quite grungie with the background graffiti (if that is what it is)

To offer some constructive criticism I would say that I think your framing of the model is a bit off in some of the shots. It seems like you were working quickly without looking around the edges of the frame to see where you were chopping her off. For example somtimes an arm is out of the frame, or some hair or the frame is cut off at a joint (which I think looks bad).

I'm being a bit nit pickey here as your shots are good but I thought your shots justified some more analysis.

Cheers

DStrom wrote:Did you try the sb800 without the flash cord?

Wendell has a D2X from memory, which doesn't have a pop up flash to send the wireless signal to the SB-800.
That's the only downside to a wonderful camera

Paul wrote:

DStrom wrote:Did you try the sb800 without the flash cord?

Wendell has a D2X from memory, which doesn't have a pop up flash to send the wireless signal to the SB-800.
That's the only downside to a wonderful camera

Guess I should have looked at his profile!

none the less I am still surprised that the af wasnt better with the sb800.

Wendell

These are very good and I like the softness. It works very well with the colour tones to give a nice warm feel to the image. My pics would be #1 and #6. #3 is the worst for me - the white undergarment really distracts because it is a very different tonality to the rest.

I like the last few out of these images. The first few are too blurry for me, even if it was meant to be creative (maybe too creative for my tastes )

With the dancing photo, watch out for the mysteriously floating hand

I like the candidness of the last few and it really shows that she started to warm up towards the end as the poses were much more natural.

Wendell I like the series a lot. My preference is just a little sharper, but love the lighting and tones

Wendell - I agree with what Glen says...bit sharper would have been fantastic. You have a great photographic/artistic future ahead of you boy! Well done!

there are a few absolute killer pics there Wendell. Good work.

Wendell,

Soft or not... I quite like all of these shots... You are very fortunate to have such good looking friends  BTW, I know what a streetwalker is, but what on earth is a street dancer???

The composition is great on most but the focus is a bit crappy especially with a 1.4 Good try! Maybe check your shutter speeds or your iso. Seems off
J

misguided image critique opinion ahead from someone who probably doesn't know much

I like your composition and lighting, fantastic stuff!

I'm going to mirror the sharpness comments as per a couple of other members. I've tried a couple of similar shots with my 50/1.4 using available lighting. After a bit of experimenting with my experiences:

* try f/2.0-2.8 and bump the ISO to 640

This will obviously reduce the amont of light reaching the sensor and you're going to have to make it up with either shutter speed or ISO. From my rather amatuer attempts, the 50/1.4 @ f/1.4 appears to have an extremely narrow depth of field (obviously like most fast glass) and it can be difficult to get spot on focus in low light at close focal distances in non-studio situations.

f/2.0-2.8 on the 50/1.4 will start to deliver a nicely focussed subject with the desirable OOF background to separate the subject (without being papercut sharp like this lens can deliver!).

When attempting this style of photography it can be a pain in the **** to lug a tripod, and hand held shooting is desirable - I normally look for something I can brace on to reduce camera shake. Sometimes it works, others not. Sometimes there's nothing around to lean up against at all.

focus - I know bugger all about the D2X, but I find with the D70 in low light AF, you can help the AF system in a couple of ways:
* know what your AF sensor points do (ie a D70 has one cross-type sensor point and 2 vertical and 2 horizonal - help them by knowing how they work
* check the AF assist function is enabled (or similar setting on the SB800 - don't know as I dont have one )
* failing the above, carry a AA battery mini-maglite to provide some additional lighting on the subject while setting the focus (while trying not to blind your subject with the maglite! ) Amatuer, but hey... it works.

some top shots!

As for the focus issue...

From my understanding, your SB800 would not use the AF-assist because you are using the SC-28. Try borrowing an SC-29 and that should work.

The SC-29 has a built-in AF-assist itself on the hotshoe connector. (I know it works with the the D2H) Which will be alot more reliable than the one on the SB800, as the camera will be pointing in the same direction.

also check your SB-800 hasnt been set to not allow the AF-assist to fire - check the menu settings.

Getting your flash off your camera is great... I hope my suggestion works...

Jonathan

wendellt wrote:All images are soft because i used manual focus because in the dark the camera can't focus all that well. The scenes look brighter becuase of the f1.4 and ISO400 but in actuality the scenes were quite dark.

Great images I like it. I will be doing some Bridal Fashion images in Nov. Will post some.....

It concerns me about the D2X can't focus that well ?

The images look like your shutter speed is to low?

shutterbug wrote:

wendellt wrote:All images are soft because i used manual focus because in the dark the camera can't focus all that well. The scenes look brighter becuase of the f1.4 and ISO400 but in actuality the scenes were quite dark.

Great images I like it. I will be doing some Bridal Fashion images in Nov. Will post some.....

It concerns me about the D2X can't focus that well ?

The images look like your shutter speed is to low?

Shutterbug, the D2X can focus in low light

ITS A PROBLEM WITH THE USER - THAT'S ME! not the equipment

anyway everybody thanks for all the constructive feedback andsupport
it's a learning experience. I have been studying all the other images and working towrds the next shoot where i will refine my process and technical skills. At the time i was focusing on getting the rapport between us more than fiddling with the camera, as i do fiddle more i loose her interest, got to balance the two somehow.

Sorry Wendellt

I just read your post and post reply...hmmm

Another option is to use a video light as your light source. I know alot of wedding photographers are using this, it works very well too.

I am trying to pick one up to test.

shutterbug wrote:Another option is to use a video light as your light source. I know alot of wedding photographers are using this, it works very well too.

I am trying to pick one up to test.

That's not a bad idea - I have one of those... I'll give it a try... Thanks for the idea...

Spoke to Laura this week she liked the art direction of the shoot but mentioned she didn't like her facial expressions, it's her first time at this kind of modelling so there was no magic in the eyes and mouth was doing nothing, stuff like that, so we are going to revisit the shoot, need some advice on these rejected images which may have some potential.


The location and lighting is great, probably more emphasis needs to be directed to the shadows to the right side of her nose, they don't define they distract from her face. I plan to use a portable strobe light with a diffuser dome to light this scene, the diffuser would evenly illuminate her face.
Got to work on the expression too it's not doing much. How do you get a model to relax and just shine on cue?


this one has the most potential it hjas a nice angle to the background that gives a sense of movement the hair is great dropping down to one side but the ears bother me, should hair be covering her ears to frame her face better or should she be wearing an ear-ring?
Illumination from the sb800 was almost front on in this shot, to counter weird shadows but i lost the definition of her most prominent features, I like side lighting and their defining shadows on the face, what do you think?
the eyes are doing more here but as you lok closely you can see two light sources reflected in her eyes the sb800 and a fixed irradescent light close to the ground, the two reflections in her eyes bother me, should there just be one? her mouth isn't doing much, is it worth getting a slight smile or just keep the portrait sultry and serious?


a slightly different angle, maybe more photogenic i need your opinion, i have been staring at ti too long. Does the offset composition make the portrait more interesting or does it distract? i think in this shot more eye shadow is needed and less mascara, does the face have to be defined more or more blown out, more light?


this one is good it makes laura look much older which is what she wants when her agent tries to get her more work, in most of the other photos she looks quite young, I don't like the angle of the arm to skinny needs more extension and maybe get rid of the hat and add a ear-ring?
The mouth is abit complex strange segmented shadows and on the right of her nose, how can i improve this shot?


this one is very stylish, we like, I used a slower shutterspeed and moved the camera a little while the flash went off and captured her still but the light disks in the background blured. the angle of her face is nice and the lighting but her expression is not that appealing looks to wavy, what do you think? maybe a pose like she's hailing a taxi, looking past the camera?
mouth slightly open?


outside tank nightclub, looks kind of urban, lighting on the jeans is good, red top too distracting makes shoulders more prominent than her face, i suggested dark clothing with verticle lines to make her look more sleek a suit with a line down the main seems, vertical lines/features on clothing make you look thinner and defines the curvature of the body more
The hat is too close of a tone to the background. i need to give more emphasis on the face. Maybe I should get some height and shoot her looking up at the camera?


stairs good allows for some good poses, framing on this shot is terrible, needs to be more intimate so she snuggly fits within the frame, arms too distracting, change top or maybe tie hankerchief on arm to break up that area. Front on shot sitting on stairs. Suggestions please?

thanks people

maybe we can organize a couple of you guys to come along on the next shoot, i wil speak to laura. Anyone got a reflector and portable strobe light we can rent cheap?

Wendell, your being too hard on yourself. RELAX - B COOL - it all goes into the image.

I think your well on track with the feel of your shots - even if theyre a bit raw... its like any new groove- it takes a while till it sits in the pocket ...But once it does -brother look out!

Still things to consider ,
1- you NEED an assistant . You cant expect to hold a camera like the d2x in one hand , AND A FLASH in the other and expect sharp images.
They can hold the flash or reflector etc , leaving you to work your model.

2 -Get a second Sb-800 and use CLS to get more light output and balance.

3- shoot more AF-C and burst . Stop worrying about the actuations.

4 one word - MYSTERY
eye contact is nice, but so are introspective poses. Eye contact can be intimidating for both model and photog/viewer...

5 two words - INCIPIENT DRAMA
Your model makes gestures that suggest she is about to do something(as you suggest - hailing a cab...), or has just done it . Its all in the body language. Hands talk louder than words. Get an Alan Pease book on body language and use these clues to communicate with your audience .

6 a second model or pedestrian -even yourself with the camera on tripod - to create a dynamic between the model and them. we dont need to see their face, just their body ...

thats more than enough from me ...
Good luck with your second take . Im looking forward to seeing them

lejazzcat has good points Wendell - but I appreciate you can be that hard on yourself. I believe your self critique skills are such a skill that given time your photography will be fully sick.

Hi Wendell, why not try shooting during the day? where there is plenty of light? or even around the time just beofre sunsets?

Wendell

I have a lastolite collapsible 38" (approx 97cm) 5-in-1 bottletop reflector you can borrow if your interested. It will require someone to hold it as it is quite large. (hoping to buy a tripod mountable bracket some day)

It would be ideal for 3/4 lengths and headshots.

It has 2 doubled sided surfaces you stretch over the main panel, which can also act as a diffusion panel (approx 1/2 - 2 stops diffusion from memory)

the surfaces are sunfire, silver, gold and white.

more info check here -
http://www.lastolite.com/bottletops.php

Im using it for a wedding this sat (8th oct) but you can have it other than that. depending on when you want to shoot, I might make myself available to assist you. You could also borrow my SB-800 if you could get a few more for multiple wireless flash.

This offer extends also to anyone else that would want to borrow it. (reflector)

why not try shooting during the day?

shutterbug is right - could you do 2 shoots? one during the day and one at night?

Jonathan

shutterbug wrote:Hi Wendell, why not try shooting during the day? where there is plenty of light? or even around the time just beofre sunsets?

we are going to do a dayshoot and a sunset one, but i need to hire a portable strobe light to illuminate her behind a overbearing sunset

Just re-visiting night shoot becaus there is a certain urban stylistic elemetn that we both like

all up we will have 3 portraits, 2 closeup facials night and day and 1 full body shot at sunset for her portfolio.

lejazzcat thanks for the advice I am going to get one of her best friends to attend the next shoot, get them conversing and in a god mod then we will start the shoot, and i will bring a mirror so Laura can pose in the mirror and guide herself that way.

We are scheduled to shoot at Bondi Bowl this sunday afternoon, provided i get some free time.

jdear thanks for the offer about the reflector, I will confirm timings and maybe take you up on youir offer. At one stage i was thinking of making my own reflector out of a styrofoam board and tin foil, but i guess the surface has to be even to reflect even light.

jdear thanks for the offer about the reflector, I will confirm timings and maybe take you up on youir offer. At one stage i was thinking of making my own reflector out of a styrofoam board and tin foil, but i guess the surface has to be even to reflect even light.

no problems. With or without me you are most welcome to it!
I used to use a stryofoam board with foil on it for macro work. It didnt reflect light evenly, as you said, onto the subjects.

Good idea about bringing a friend of hers... helps them to relax and it shows in the photos.

Which suburb do you live in?

JD

Wendellt,

I hope I'm not to new to offer my thoughts. If this is your first time with a model, you are well on your way.

I'm trying to break into headshots myself.

My favorite is the last shot you posted. Great natural looking shot with a perfect background. The only thing I would do PP is shop out the two small light spots in the upper left corner, lose the nose shadow, sign it and make it a part of your portfolio.

Big Time Kudos!!!

dk

Wendell,

As you say, there are a few shots in there which look a little awkward and where the model's expression isnt quite right. However, I think the concepts and settings and general composition you have used are fantastic.

As for the slightly soft OOF issue, when I was looking at them, I was wondering what technique you had used (or what postprocessing you had done) to achieve that look, because I REALLY like it. There was one shot that was a little too soft, but other than that, I think it looks great. I think it works for me because nothing is in sharp focus to highlight the general softness, if that makes sense?

Regards the one you were wondering if you had been staring at it too long, I think that is one of the best of the lot. The circles of light add to the pics and lead your eye through to her face of the right side and she kinda looks like she is peaking at you around the side of a building. That, coupled with that very slightly defocused look all combine to create (for me) a seriously good photograph.

robboh wrote:Wendell,
As for the slightly soft OOF issue, when I was looking at them, I was wondering what technique you had used (or what postprocessing you had done) to achieve that look, because I REALLY like it. There was one shot that was a little too soft, but other than that, I think it looks great. I think it works for me because nothing is in sharp focus to highlight the general softness, if that makes sense?

Whoah this is a blast from the past

Hi DK
thankyou for the comments, i think now i have gotten better, but this shoot never eventuated to stage 2 as my friend is too busy up until the xmas, maybe next year we can re-visit she is totally keen on doing more conceptual scenic shots with her breakin' with a more urban landscape in the background.

Hi Robboh, thankyou for your comments
regarding your question on post processing usually in photoshop i just make sure the blacks are blacks in levels and tweak the highlights, but now that shoot in raw raw shooter essentials has better control on 'highlight contrast' and 'shadow contrast' settings. I just try to adjust those two settings to get a contrast level i am happy with, but usually gettign good contrast depends on searching for good light, as i did for this shoot. You may be referrign to the greenish/blusish tone in the background contrasted by the yellowish tone of the model? if so i play around with my colour settings on the d2x i can adjust colour balance in kelvins. To get a bluish greenish background i shoot around 3200K the scale goes like this: 1000K you get a cool blue image bump up to 9100 that produces a warm reddish image, on the D2X. Now i shoot around 3200 use the irradecent(orange gel) on the flash and tweak around with the exposure compensation settings and i get an image similar to what you see, but it's not quite right so in photoshop i use the colour balance and fill the shadow tones with blue or green and the midtones with red and highlights yellow to get the sort of art directed urban gritty feel i like.
In the end though if you search for moody light that has bluish green tones in the background and irradescent lamposts to illuminate the model you can pretty much get the same result right out of the camera with minimal tweaking.

Wendellt,
Love to see the nice model shoots.
It is great.
-------
Regards
Poon

Wendell, some great shots here!! If you ever need a hand just let me know!! I'm not going to be working for a couple of months and I'd love to get some experience on set even if it is just holding flashes and reflectors!! I have an SB800, a SC-29 and a reflector, so if you ever find yourself needing more hands, just give me a shout!!