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Cops everywhere, watching my every move. They'd come up to say hello, but i gather they were just checking to make sure i wasn't Osama. I guess with some random guy walking around the lock-down area sunday night taking photos of the non-typical tourist images could raise some eyebrows. Allah Akbah ..

I tried a few different B&W actions.

Nice to see some different shots from you Andrew. They certainly are sharp.

Cool shots, been wondering what it all looks like! I'm a naturally sus looking person, so I probably wouldn't take these shots

(PS: get stuffed GWB)

On the channel 10 news in south oz tonight they showed a guy with what looked like a 40D getting quized by the police. They also showed them chimping his camera to see what he had taken photos of.

Big V wrote:On the channel 10 news in south oz tonight they showed a guy with what looked like a 40D getting quized by the police. They also showed them chimping his camera to see what he had taken photos of.

I was defiantly aware of the police presence. They were roving in packs, on bikes, in unmarked cars, in boats, on every corner.... And when i stopped to change lenses and move around for different compositions, i became more aware that they were aware of me. So i tried to keep moving.

There is probably little they could have done to me. But i wanted some unique images of Sydney.

Excellent shots there Andrew!

Excellent shots - I particularly like the first but overall they make a fine series. Not sure whether I'll have time, inclination or courage to make the trip into the city for a shoot this week...

Andrew,

Great reportage there.

The first of those sickens me to my gut. I am ashamed to say that Sydney is my home.

And I've heard reports that two German tourists were asked to delete photos they had taken of the fences.

Shame, Sydney.

Shame!

You must be lucky, or maybe I'm unlucky - they confiscated my memory card and apparently I'll get it back after the event. Perhaps because I was inside the fence (picking stuff up from work so I don't have to go thru once they start the clampdown), or perhaps because I was on a bike. But for whatever reason, I got stopped, searched, and my card confiscated.

wow thats sydney? looks like a middle east country warzone

gstark wrote:Andrew,

Great reportage there.

The first of those sickens me to my gut. I am ashamed to say that Sydney is my home.

And I've heard reports that two German tourists were asked to delete photos they had taken of the fences.

Shame, Sydney.

Shame!

Way off mark Gary - Sydney has nothing to do with this State/Federal depravity - it’s all down to the pollies - they are the ones that should suffer for this shameful situation.

Andrew - wonderful shots of something I hope never to witness again.

moz wrote:You must be lucky, or maybe I'm unlucky - they confiscated my memory card and apparently I'll get it back after the event. Perhaps because I was inside the fence (picking stuff up from work so I don't have to go thru once they start the clampdown), or perhaps because I was on a bike. But for whatever reason, I got stopped, searched, and my card confiscated.

What a bunch of absolute wankers - moz, the way I see it that is theft by the state and we now have in place our very own Geheime Staatspolizei administered by our State Schutzstaffel and under the federal government dept Reichssicherheitshauptamt.

All of this preparation has nothing to do with protesters - this is an exercise in paranoia about having a world leader assassinated on our soil and to hell with our everyday life.

sirhc55 wrote:

gstark wrote:Andrew,

Great reportage there.

The first of those sickens me to my gut. I am ashamed to say that Sydney is my home.

And I've heard reports that two German tourists were asked to delete photos they had taken of the fences.

Shame, Sydney.

Shame!

Way off mark Gary - Sydney has nothing to do with this State/Federal depravity - it’s all down to the pollies - they are the ones that should suffer for this shameful situation.

Andrew - wonderful shots of something I hope never to witness again.

Exactly - Not only that - without all the violent protests in the past it wouldn't be needed either.

It's a vicious circle...

sirhc55 wrote:All of this preparation has nothing to do with protesters - this is an exercise in paranoia about having a world leader assassinated on our soil and to hell with our everyday life.

Popularity by paranoia? You would think there is an election looming.

sirhc55 wrote:

gstark wrote:Andrew,

Great reportage there.

The first of those sickens me to my gut. I am ashamed to say that Sydney is my home.

And I've heard reports that two German tourists were asked to delete photos they had taken of the fences.

Shame, Sydney.

Shame!

Way off mark Gary - Sydney has nothing to do with this State/Federal depravity - it’s all down to the pollies - they are the ones that should suffer for this shameful situation.

Chris,

Yes, absolutely, but no. We, as Sydneysiders, have permitted this to happen.

All the tripe - sorry, I mean hype - when Johnnie announced this years ago and how good it would be for Sydney.

He should have be shouted down then.

Moz, I would be making lots of noises about that. That is disgusting.

I mean Heil Howard!

Thanks for the insight Padey. Next thing we know, we'll all be rounded up into ghettos for our protection.

Moz, are they really allowed to confiscate your property without any evidence of a crime? That's appalling.

Allegedly I will be getting it back after the event, but they refused to allow me to record their IDs or give me a receipt, so I will have to wait and see what they do.

But yes, you enter the CBD entirely at the discretion of the plod, and they can largely do what they like as long as they say they thought I might be a tourist. Or a protester. Or someone who supports tourism or protest. Or someone who might publish material that might help tourists or protesters. Because no measure is too strong to protect Dear Leader and his master.

I note that the SMH published an article today emphasising that the war criminals in town for APEC all have diplomatic immunity so can't be arrested even for crimes that they willingly admit to committing. just in case anyone was wondering why the blue gang out out there protecting criminals and preventing justice.

gstark wrote:
We, as Sydneysiders, have permitted this to happen.

If we demonstrated against this happening in our fair city would we have collectively been heard - NO

So are we still gonna go out and shoot it?

moz wrote:but they refused to allow me to record their IDs or give me a receipt

And we call this a democracy - in my book they have committed a criminal act - theft of property and should face the full force of the law - whoops! They are the law. Catch 22.

Amusingly, the antonym of democracy is DICTATORSHIP

sirhc55 wrote:If we demonstrated against this happening in our fair city would we have collectively been heard - NO

Street protest is the last resort. But the responses I have got from politicians that I have written to on this issue is that the federal Liberals mostly support both the APEC meeting and the police state, any ALP/Lib politician who disagrees is scared to say so for fear of being seen as soft, and the Greens/Democrats don't have the numbers.

The ACLU and so on have done what they can, but really we need a decent swing at the next election - federal Labour in the lower house a d a solid Democrats/Greens mix controlling the upper house. "Family First" and One Nation unfortunately also support the nastiness.

Given the use of undercover officers to start violence at previous protests both in Australia and at other APEC/G8/G20 meetings I would be more inclined to ask "who benefits from the violence" than "how can we stop the protesters being violent". Also, anyone going along to protests, even just to take photos, be prepared to be released on Tuesday or Wednesday next week. Don't count on the camera and a n excuse to get you out of any mass arrests that happen.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/syd ... d=rss_news[/url]

"But NSW Transport Minister John Watkins said that, while requiring tourists to delete photos of the fence might be "over the top", it is necessary."

"He was responding today to reports that three German tourists were asked by police to delete digital photographs of the newly built fence, which stretches five kilometres through Sydney's CBD."

Paranoid pieces of shit. And how can you admit it's 'over the top' but still call it 'necessary.'

moz wrote:The ACLU and so on have done what they can, but really we need a decent swing at the next election - federal Labour in the lower house a d a solid Democrats/Greens mix controlling the upper house. "Family First" and One Nation unfortunately also support the nastiness.

Out of interest (And I'm not disagreeing with you, btw, just asking the question), Do you think that if Labour was currently in power this whole APEC mess would have been any different?

moz wrote: Given the use of undercover officers to start violence at previous protests both in Australia and at other APEC/G8/G20 meetings.

Care to show us REAL evidence of this? Were they planted in the crowd by aliens?

Is this APEC stuff all over the top? Yep.

Oh, wait a minute, in Melbourne last year the Police went to the other end of the spectrum, not wanting to trample on peoples right of protest. Good stuff. Small fences instead of big barricades. Uniform Police instead of lines of riot Police. Nice, touchy feely.

oh, except the protestors got violent and carried on like the usual fuckwits they are. Don't like the words 'fuckwits'? well, tough. Think of it as my right to protest.

Don't like whats going on in Sydney? Neither would I if I lived there. But, those decisions were made by the government that YOU all voted in. Oh, whats that, voted for the other people? Unless you ALL voted for the green/democrats, the situation would be exactly the same. Heck, even the democrats. Only the greens would have said 'get stuffed', and if they were running the state, I'm sure we'd have much bigger issues to worry about.

Moz, I'm surprised you didn't at least get a receipt, I hope you get your card back at the end of it all.

Protest all you want folks. It is your right. But just remember, you all know the consequences, as Moz pointed out. Take a weeks annual leave from work and take a stand rather than bitching here.

Side note:

Don't discount the economic impact of a senior foreign diplomat or leader being assassinated here. The down turn in tourism would likely be significant. Our international reputation would be tarnished. Our own vision of our 'free and easy' lifestyle would be tarnished, and there would be more 'pain in the ass' laws to subjugate the masses.

Of course, if you don't like tourists cause the clutter up the city streets, this might be a good thing.

http://www.bigpond.com/news/topstories/content/20070903/2022018.asp

There’s always two sides to a story and taking your word ”fuckwits” at face value Raskill I agree that within any ”demonstration” there are those that take actions to an extreme.

But, my impressions of government actions lead me to label them as fuckwits too. Police intel should always be on top of what is happening within dissident groups but has proven time and time again to be lacking. The paranoia of government is only made more obvious by the actions that they impose on law enforcement agencies.

The impositions made on the people of Sydney would not and should not have happened if the venue for this ”event” had been chosen with forethought to security.

The use of the police force at the Cronulla and Redfern riots was abysmal which proved that when there is a need for control it is sadly lacking.

To use the argument ”the government that YOU all voted in” is banal in the extreme and seems to be the answer to all protest.

The police do a reasonable job considering that they are controlled by an extremely fascist government.

Free speech is dead and buried in Australia.

Raskill wrote:

moz wrote: Given the use of undercover officers to start violence at previous protests both in Australia and at other APEC/G8/G20 meetings.

Care to show us REAL evidence of this?

Montreal I can show evidence for, they were totally outed in the media.
http://www.forumopolis.com/showthread.php?t=57972
http://www.infoshop.org/inews/article.php?story=20070823191635292
http://mostlywater.org/evidence_of_police_provocateurs_at_montebello

If you were in Sydney during the Eastern Distributor RTS you would hopefully have heard about the officer who was sprayed, it certainly made the media here. Of course, they didn't go into detail about *why* he was sprayed, but what I saw was that he had a collapsible baton out, was arguing with a protester, then got taken out by uniforms.

Try to keep the insults under control, you're showing your prejudices again. Remember: the people you used to serve can think, and simply disagreeing with you is not evidence of insanity.

Raskill wrote:Moz, I'm surprised you didn't at least get a receipt, I hope you get your card back at the end of it all.

Thanks. So do I. But it was funny how straight after I asked for a receipt the cop that was talking to me just happened to say "if we arrest you you won't be let out until after the summit is over". So I asked if I could get his name and station, and he said no.

Alan

Raskill wrote:

moz wrote: Given the use of undercover officers to start violence at previous protests both in Australia and at other APEC/G8/G20 meetings.

Care to show us REAL evidence of this? Were they planted in the crowd by aliens?

Canada. A democracy very similar to ours.

Or maybe that's a demoncracy.

oh, except the protestors got violent and carried on like the usual fuckwits they are. Don't like the words 'fuckwits'? well, tough. Think of it as my right to protest.

This is where the whole thing degnerates, of course. There are many who wish to exercise their right to protest, and they wish to do so peacefully. I would like to think that they're the majority of the protestors.

Then there's the fuckwits, and the dickheads, who are more intent on pushing their own barrow, rather than legitimately protesting. The police, rightfully, need to do something about them, but my thoughts are that we should not be wasting our detention resources upon them. I would respectfully suggest that we send them on an ocean voyage somewhere, in a vessel like the Tampa.

And then there's the tourerists ... if li'l Johnnie had his way, this country would become a country full of taxi-drivers, cooks and waiters .... and footballers and cricketers ....such is the methodology of the philistine currently occupying Silly-Billy House.

Don't like whats going on in Sydney? Neither would I if I lived there.

Which is why, on Wednesday, I'm outta here for the duration. Next Sunday's radio show is done and put to bed already too: Songs Of Freedom.

Moz, I'm surprised you didn't at least get a receipt, I hope you get your card back at the end of it all.

That worries me greatly too, and it's demonstrating one aspect of this whole shitfight that I was fearing: that some individuals - on either side -will take advantage .... this sounds so wrong.

Don't discount the economic impact of a senior foreign diplomat or leader being assassinated here. The down turn in tourism would likely be significant.

Hang about a bit; weren't we told that this event would bring about an upturn in tourerism? We certainly were wrt the Olympics, but that was very short-lived. If there's going to be any upturn from this, it will be even shorter than the Olympics one.

Our international reputation would be tarnished.

What reputation would that be ? In all seriousness, many here don't understand how small Oz is on the world stage .... and let's face the fact that the only reason l'il Johnnie is having this barbeque is so that he can pretend to be a big world leader on the big world stage.

Sorry, Shirley, ego is a dirty word.

dviv wrote:Out of interest (And I'm not disagreeing with you, btw, just asking the question), Do you think that if Labour was currently in power this whole APEC mess would have been any different?

It's hard to know. I suspect that if they had been in power since the last election we'd be in a significantly different situation. If nothing else, labour would probably be less ready to make threats like Howard does against the unions. So we would probably see less willingness to host APEC in Sydney and a bit lighter on the police state nonsense overall. But they both succumb to the "give us more power, give the police more power" nonsense on a regular basis.

What I do think is that Raskill is right - unless it was The Greens in power we'd still face a government that is ready to govern by might if it can't govern by persuasion. Labour in that regard is not a lot better. Obviously I disagree with him on the other consequences, especially stuff like climate change and taxation.

But it reinforces the point that I agree with Howard on - people in Australia will not change their votes just because of civil liberties issues. Or at least not until it's too late.

moz wrote:I suspect that if they had been in power since the last election we'd be in a significantly different situation.

In terms of Johhnie's barbeque, I believe that he made that decision well before the last feral election.

But why did he choose Sydney, rather than Canberra, which I would have thought, is exactly the city where our national government is run from?

Well, yes, exactly: Johhnie has run from anything and everything to do with leadership, and this is a prime example.

One of the things I always shy away from is politics, and as such would it be too much to ask to have the extreme politics removed from this thread (moved elsewhere) so we can comment on the original work without drawing completely into the political arguments behind it?

Without knowing these are from the APEC summit they images could portray anything and I must concede that adding the political argument only adds to the feeling that everyone gets when the view it, no matter the side of the fence they sit or their political persuasion.

The first, streets cordoned off, the open gate, leading to the bridge with the APEC insignia. To me this shows that the summit is one sided, blinkered, there is but one path to tread. However there are other streets opened on the sides, this shows that there is always choice. I think this image really captures quite a bit if you really look into it. The stark lighting gives a feeling of desolation, hopelessness, one car gives isolation, this could be naught but an image portraying how our society is nothing but a rat race (think maze in a lab).

The second, industrious, busy, workers carrying out the work of the man, building the maze, adding to the feeling of loss. The work carried out in secret, under the cover of darkness, whilst the good people sleep. On the other hand erecting barriers of safety to keep the public safe away from the wild political beasts that will parade through the caged walkways. Once again two sides to the image, dependent on political view, morality, trust, up-bringing...

I'm lost on the third, at reaching the end of our journey there is naught but blackness, with the oppressive Police! On the other hand, our ordeal is at an end, the Police are there ready to help us cross the vast blackness and carry us away to the light and safety of a well known iconic image.

Sorry for the narrative, I really do hate politics and how much people read into everything, it really has become naught but an art of deception. Who can get me what I want, and if not how can I use them to get it. I suppose the whole series of images represent the duplicity that is politics, the good and the bad, it is just ones views that determine which is which.

Having lived and worked in Sydney, this is a sad thing to see, but like everything that is based on politics and modern society there is a show in it for all. With all these barriers, cages, passageways, who is the viewer and who is the viewed will be the question.

Padey, great emotive images, specially the first two, the third is really open to a great deal of interpretation and doesn't portray as strong a feeling as the first two to me. Great PP work, I think if these were all colour they would lose their impact!

* please do not flame me I have no desire to enter into political argument or discussion *

moz wrote:

Raskill wrote:Care to show us REAL evidence of this?

Montreal I can show evidence for, they were totally outed in the media.
http://www.forumopolis.com/showthread.php?t=57972
http://www.infoshop.org/inews/article.php?story=20070823191635292
http://mostlywater.org/evidence_of_police_provocateurs_at_montebello

Incontrovertible!

Although, protestors carrying marbles solely to bring down mounted police, is acceptable.

Reschsmooth wrote:Although, protestors carrying marbles solely to bring down mounted police, is acceptable.

That's one of those "show evidence" things... no-one was ever charged, let alone convicted of doing that in Sydney, and "coincidentally" the police needed to explain why their police horse put a journalist in hospital with a broken hip at that event. So much easier to say "quick, look over there, violent protesters" than "yes, we attacked a peaceful protest and hurt people who were not being violent, sorry about that". I don't think even the minister for thugs and bogans had the gall to suggest that the reporter was engaging in violence. But it did distract from the "who used violence" question quite well.

bwhinnen wrote:One of the things I always shy away from is politics, and as such would it be too much to ask to have the extreme politics removed from this thread (moved elsewhere) so we can comment on the original work without drawing completely into the political arguments behind it?

Brett,

I understand fully where you're coming from, and to a large extent I agree.

However, this is more than simply a major event that's occurring in Sydney: it should also be a major opportunity for us, as photographers, to be able to exercise our rights and make images of everything that's happening in this city.

That includes the fences - of which Andrew's first shot in this thread is a masterful piece of work because of the contrasts it conveys - and I think it's also reasonable, where somebody has been denied their right to make a similar image, for that to be discussed under the umbrella of Andrew's image.

More: I think it's not simply reasonable; I think that Andrew's image inspires this sort of discussion, and as such, I think that this discussion is entirely appropriate, provided that the underlying rules of this forum are respected - no personal attacks, no flaming, etc etc.

At this time, I see the discussion as vigorous, but I'm seeing no personal invective (except towards our so-called leaders) and thus I'm not seeing any major issues with this thread, as it currently is being run.

Now ... I not only have an intense dislike for politics, but I have an absolute loathing for politicians of any and every flavour. On the issue of politics, for instance, I have a real problem understanding the concept of "loyalty" as it pertains to any politician using that word.

And yes, our barbeque chef used that very word today.

Yes, this event should be a show, and it should be one we should all be able to enjoy and savour. But the vested interests arise, like a banker seeing an interest rate hike, and the result is the saddest looking city in the world, police in riot gear, and 5 million people's rights trodden on so one politician can have a barbecue with a few of his elite buddies.

Excuse me ... I think I'm about to throw up!

all things aside. is it really justifiable to lockdown an entire city so that 21 foreigners can have a meeting? plus the whole business of having a fireworks display and telling the public to stay is ridiculous. im sorry if i dont agree with other people on htis forum but no meeting gives justification for turning a city in Australia into a police state.

just drove through the city, the fenced off area is rather interesting, starts at the set of lights where jacksons on georges is and goes down to the railway bridge where it looks like they are going to close off the street at some point, also follows down to the right past the Quay, police presense is everywhere, its certainly not as bad as i had expected.

DavidR wrote:all things aside. is it really justifiable to lockdown an entire city so that 21 foreigners can have a meeting?....(Omissis)
.....no meeting gives justification for turning a city in Australia into a police state.

It's not justifiable!
I went down to the CBD and I blinked my eyes few times, I was petrified.. a sort of jump in the past....it reminded me Genova G8 2001 (Italy).
Same fences....same arrogance.....

I hope with a different end this time.....

Ps: Thanks Padey to give us your (great) "different B&W actions".

moz wrote:That's one of those "show evidence" things... no-one was ever charged, let alone convicted of doing that in Sydney

Does lack of charge and conviction mean it didn't happen?

I meant to link this article before (hey, if others can reference the media, so can I).

I get annoyed at protestors who appear to incite violence during protests and the very fact that there is a need for them to protest (G8/20, APEC, pretty much anything that has resulted from the actions of conservative governments). So, I sit on the fence and yell at the TV about the hypocrisy of both sides.

Reschsmooth wrote:So, I sit on the fence and yell at the TV about the hypocrisy of both sides.

Which section of the 5K of fence are you sitting on, Patrick? Somewhere near a coffee shop, I'll bet.

Having Police Officers in a crowd is nothing new. It certainly doesn't prove they are inciting violence. It is common practice to have plain clothes officers infiltrate the crowd to ID the trouble makers, and try to remove them. Failing that, they gather evidence on the trouble maker for a later prosecution.

Having Police inthe crowd is not evidence that they incite violence.

gstark wrote:

Reschsmooth wrote:So, I sit on the fence and yell at the TV about the hypocrisy of both sides.

Which section of the 5K of fence are you sitting on, Patrick? Somewhere near a coffee shop, I'll bet.

"There is some concern amongst police that some of those protesters who are coming. . . will look for weak points in the fence," Mr Watkins told Southern Cross Broadcasting.

"And that one of the things they are doing is a recce of the fence to find where they can attack it."

I hope not Starbacks...it may have a laxative effect for a weak fence

I was able to walk freely through all fenced areas, as not all the fencing was up at the time. Although i was well aware that i was being watched, and so I wasn't flashing a camera around trying to draw attention. I don't think i'd be so lucky tonight.

Sadly the first image for me is a sight i thought id never see in my city. I'm not sure if that is a reflection on my city or what the Govt of Aust has brought upon us, by way of APEC.

I wish i could of had some more time to get a better composition, or reframe it, but at the time a group of cops noticed my loitering and started to walk my way.

A few more;



http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/pade/apec4.jpg
http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/pade/apec6.jpg

Pehpsi wrote:Cool shots, been wondering what it all looks like! I'm a naturally sus looking person, so I probably wouldn't take these shots

(PS: get stuffed GWB)

If you resemble your avatar, I wouldnt want to meet you in a dark alley.

Reschsmooth wrote:Does lack of charge and conviction mean it didn't happen?

Well, ok, as someone who was there (and was one of the people arrested), I didn't see anything to suggest that the Police horses were being interfered with, other than by their riders. So when the Police make a claim like that, I'd expect them to be able to back it up with, say, footage from one of the many tv cameras that were present, witness statements from one of the many officers also present, or even just footage from one of the police cameras. But.... nothing. They didn't even bother collecting the marbles.

Thing is, there were lots of protesters pissed off that the horse fell, and it's likely that even if it was actually a protester throwing marbles, they're not so dumb as to say so because they would probably have been turned over to the cops. but we couldn't even find anyone who had actually seen marbles, despite talking to people very close to the incident. Much more likely IMO is that the horse was being ridden through a densely packed crowd of people, and there was a kerb running through the crowd. A number of people also tripped on that, so my guess is that so did the horse.

But I was 10m or so away from that, so this is just supposition.

So, people, maybe it's time to actually get back to the critique of the images.

For me #1 and the most recently posted are the standouts. Although the selective colours works well in the latter, I'd have prefereed #1 in all black - but that's just me - photographer knows best.

stubbsy wrote:I'd have prefereed #1 in all black

Now I know your foot must be hurting like hell Peter but to suggest that #1 should be all black is a bit beyond the pale and smacks of an overdose of pain killers

As i have no intention of visiting Sydney this week, i do like the images as it is good reportage of a current event that i won't see. The emotions afforded by some of the repliers shows that the subject is very topical and provocative, which are two aspects of true art, in my opinion.

Excellent work Andrew, great images and thanks for taking the time to shoot them for us.

hey Padey, getting back to the images, that last one you posted with the APEC ad juxitposed against the fence put a wry smile on my face. not usually a fan of selecitve colour but in this case it works . i also think the loose comp aids this pic as it gives you more a feel of the situation. good capture

moz wrote:You must be lucky, or maybe I'm unlucky - they confiscated my memory card and apparently I'll get it back after the event. Perhaps because I was inside the fence (picking stuff up from work so I don't have to go thru once they start the clampdown), or perhaps because I was on a bike. But for whatever reason, I got stopped, searched, and my card confiscated.

Just digging up an old post, but, I was wondering, what right, under the APEC Meeting (Police Powers) Act 2007, did the police have to confiscate the card, given it does not appear to be a "prohibited item"?

By the way, good luck getting the card back:

Sect 13 wrote:(7) If a thing that has been surrendered or seized under this section is not returned to the person who surrendered it or from whom it was seized within the period of 24 hours after its surrender or seizure:
(a) the thing is forfeited to the Crown on the expiry of that period, and
(b) no compensation is payable in respect of any such forfeiture.

Hopefully you will at least get a thank you note from the GovGen for the gift to the Crown.

But don't you just feel more secure?