DSLRUsers.com

Well, the first part didnt seem to stir much of a response ....so here goes for this lot.......

I like lines....







Finally i am stuck with this one (would be a great Glamour shot) but does it work for a wedding image?



Cheers and thanks for looking!
Dan

theres a lot of freestyle creativity there
good on ya

but sometimes its so free it makes my head spin, no rights or wrongs there just an observation

I like what you've done here... a lot...

The only thing that would be better is the brides expression in the last photograph perhaps

Dan, I don't doubt you have creativity. As a wedding photographer, your only concern should be your client, do if they are happy, then you have done a good job.

That said, I personally don't like these photos and much of what you post. I think that strong angles are often used to hide weak composition, as is strong PP such as selective colouring & powerful glow effects which you often use.

Can you tell me what adds to the photo when it's tilted at 45 degrees? What do you like about it, more importantly, what do the B&G like about it? I'm not trying to antagonise or start a shitfight, I genuinely want to understand the thought process behind these photos.

Again, please don't take this as flaming - I'd love you to justify your composition & style to me so that I understand & can learn something from it.

rooboy wrote:Dan, I don't doubt you have creativity. As a wedding photographer, your only concern should be your client, do if they are happy, then you have done a good job.

That said, I personally don't like these photos and much of what you post. I think that strong angles are often used to hide weak composition, as is strong PP such as selective colouring & powerful glow effects which you often use.

Can you tell me what adds to the photo when it's tilted at 45 degrees? What do you like about it, more importantly, what do the B&G like about it? I'm not trying to antagonise or start a shitfight, I genuinely want to understand the thought process behind these photos.

Again, please don't take this as flaming - I'd love you to justify your composition & style to me so that I understand & can learn something from it.

Dan, I don't doubt you have creativity. As a wedding photographer, your only concern should be your client, do if they are happy, then you have done a good job-correct and to date they have been estatic!

That said, I personally don't like these photos and much of what you post. I think that strong angles are often used to hide weak composition, as is strong PP such as selective colouring & powerful glow effects which you often use- Thats cool, you are not the one i have to impress!


Can you tell me what adds to the photo when it's tilted at 45 degrees? - Anyone can take an image, i want to set myself apart from the millions of wedding photographers out there that do weddings....most of the "angles" you see are derived from standard compositions...so UR theory goes straight out the window there? People will book me for that same issue (and to date they are) if they dont like what they see the wont so thats why!

Bare in mind, they DONT get an album full of these types of images.....i throw them out here to get a reaction and advise?

Cheers
Dan

I like the different angle in the first 3. As a variety, to include with traditionals of course.

THe last one, I dont think she will like that image, the frown says "I dont like the way I look right now", and thats certainly not a message you want to reinforce via her treasured photgraphs of her special day.

Also.......granted i am in this "angle phase" i will settle it down....i am still finding myself as a tog.....so things will right themselves (sorry for the bad pun)

I am just trying different things....i too sometimes think i am pushing it a little......thanks for your comments ..... i will take them away with me.

dan

I dont like what you do either!
So i guess we are even?

Dan

Why did you have to take that personally? (Why send it as a PM instead of posting it in the public forum?) The first thing I said was that your responsibility is to your client, not to us, so feel free to disregard anything I say. If your clients are ecstatic then who cares what we say about your pics - you posted them for critique here so that's what I gave.

That said, I personally don't like these photos and much of what you post. I think that strong angles are often used to hide weak composition, as is strong PP such as selective colouring & powerful glow effects which you often use- Thats cool, you are not the one i have to impress!

I completely agree that I'm not the one who you have to impress with PP & composition - why get so antsy that I'm not impressed?

Can you tell me what adds to the photo when it's tilted at 45 degrees? - Anyone can take an image, i want to set myself apart from the millions of wedding photographers out there that do weddings....most of the "angles" you see are derived from standard compositions...so UR theory goes straight out the window there? People will book me for that same issue (and to date they are) so thats why!

Fair enough that you want to set yourself apart - but you never answered my question. I never offered a 'theory' at all - I wanted to know why they work for you (& more importantly the B&G). If people book you for these shots, then congratulations - quite seriously, this is far more important than anything that I (or others on this forum) could add. If that is the case, why are you so aggressive towards this?

As I said already, I'm not trying to pick a fight. I couldn't care less what you think of my photos, just like you shouldn't care less what I think of yours, so long as your client is happy.

Regards,

Patrick

I've had a look at both posts and i think there is some areas that you can develop.

There is virtually no perceived control over the depth of field. In the one image with controlled DoF, of the rose and bridal party in the background, this shot is to dark. Technically you need to lift the iso to pull up the exposure in the background and manually draw some stops out of the flash for the rose. Now if you had time at a post wedding shoot, which i know you never have, you can set up multiple flash units.

I really don't think this forum is the place to work out your album shots. You see the locations, you know what will work, what won't and more importantly you spent at some time with the clients.

Photography is a learning experience, and we never stop learning. So pick the right people to learn from.

so long as your client is happy.

And they are thankyou (to date).......And i am NOT agressive to what you said at all.....You can pick the eyes out of my images all you like, there was only ONE remark you said that i didnt like and that was "i dont like MOST of what you post" thats all.....but its all good...i am zipping it now.......dont want to go down an old troubled path.....

Thanks Padey.......great advise.

Dan

Cre8tivepixels wrote:

so long as your client is happy.

And they are thankyou (to date).......And i am NOT agressive to what you said at all.....You can pick the eyes out of my images all you like, there was only ONE remark you said that i didnt like and that was "i dont like MOST of what you post" thats all.....but its all good...i am zipping it now.......dont want to go down an old troubled path.....

Thanks Paddy.......great advise.

Dan

Look, your client shouldn't be the bar by which you judge yourself.

I know when we've had a bad day in the office, ie, poor planning by B&G, no time, terrible lighting... But you know what, the clients always love the photos, even though we know we've had better days.

I recommend cutting the BS; be a craftsman and enjoy learning the craft. BTW it's Padey, not Paddy.

I am only winging it and guessing at the moment....i am learning as i go.....not great i know....so thats why some of those shots are rough.....the B&G were over it too as the rain ruined thier day so all in all it was a hard day........but my stuff is never going to be "normal" lol...guess i will live or die by that!

Here is one with plenty of straight lines.....lol




The other thing is no one really wants to part with info/tips on how to better myself.....tis a lonely old game photography....well for me anyhow (maybe i am not looking/asking in the right places)
Dan

i know iv'e parted with lots of tips even disclosing my secrets
its all in my threads and moany others have to
you just have to learn how to use the search

theres lots of info out there for free

and also if you just study other images from magazines or advertisements youll will learn alot if you know how to analyse evaluate and know hwo to practically apply the knowledge

Cre8tivepixels wrote:The other thing is no one really wants to part with info/tips on how to better myself.....tis a lonely old game photography....well for me anyhow (maybe i am not looking/asking in the right places)
Dan

I can't think of any area of our business that we don't share with people who ask.

Secondly, we have two photographers who work for us who are in the process of kicking off their own wedding photography business. And we share all our knowledge and workflow with. BTW different doesn't equal best, it could also just be another shade of grey....

If you want a free way to learn, head down to the park between the harbour bridge and the Park Hyat any saturday or sunday arvo, and watch the weddings rollup every half hour. Some shooters will turn up with a D70 and kit lens, others turn up with cases and assistance. Each have their own style. Look and learn...

There are photographers out there who ARE willing to part with their advice. Also learning isn't just about hearing what the photographers have to say, it's also doing the visual research yourself from galleries, folios, magazines, etc as Wendell mentioned.

It's really only as lonely as you make it out to be.

PiroStitch wrote:It's really only as lonely as you make it out to be.

Wayne,

That is so very true.

One of the strengths of our forum is that our members run the whole gamut of photography techniques and experience, and this thread, is a great example of this.

Dan's images are very different, and may not be to everyone's taste. That's how it is. Others have offered advice in good faith and Dan is free to accept or reject that advice, but it's offered in the genuine interests of trying to help improve the photographers' skillset.

Of course, that doesn't simply happen here (in this thread) and I'd certainly be interested in seeing Dan's observations on the merits of images shot by others. I don't think that we've seen too much of that as yet, and as most here will acknowledge, this passing around of infrrmation is - it must be - a two way street.

Gary.....i think that ur post is slightly unfair (unless i have mis-interperated it )......as i have commented on many members images in here (i dont make a huge deal out of it or go into any technical aspects purely because i dont know enough myself about photography in general - so who am i to comment)

Ur right it is a two way street........for what ever reason (and i am only speaking for myself here - i dont find that is - swapping info etc) as i said maybe i am not looking in the right places or asking the right people. I had a call from a member here just the other day picking my brains and i was only to happy to tell all (what little i know) in a 20min conversation...so i dont think you are correct there. And again i was not dismissive of the advise i got from Rooboy, i only objected to the line "dont like MUCH of what you post" was there a need to say that?

I know mud sticks but i do not want to get dragged into another storm....i CAN take C & C now and will continue to grow as a TOG good or bad one and take the advise on offer and learn.

Thanks.......

Dan

Given that I am new here and haven't established any real credibility as yet I will probably regret commenting on this one. However, I figure I'll put my 2 cents worth in anyway.

I've had a look at both posts and your website and to be fair these shots aren't up to the standard of what's on your site.

From your first post, images 3 & 4 have got flash reflections in them which is never good, it is also a real shame because image 3 is a very nice shot, a little lower angle would have made it perfect and also gotten rid of the flash problem.

The second post, I have to say right up front that I am not a big fan of the angle shot basically because it has been done to death and if your using it as a way to differenciate your work it isn't the way to go.

The exposures on images 1 & 3 don't really work, the flash is to harsh and patchy. Image #2 would be fine with less tilt.

Image #4, as it is at the moment it doesn't work at all, the selective colouring makes the girl look like a corpse. What I would suggest is to stay with the selective colouring but bring back some colour into rest of the image, sort of a high key pastel. I think that would give it a nice dreamy sort of look.

Dan

These shots present me with a challenge. I don't get excited (photographically) by your girly shoots (guess I'm with Patrick there ) and so refrain from comment. These OTOH have a certain something that makes me want to look, yet just don't get over the line and rather than stay silent I'd like to concentrate on the flaws (so advance warning I'm being EXTRA critical here).

#1 - This is a really strong image, but I can't help but keep tilting my head to enjoy it which, for me, really detracts from what is an otherwise well composed shot. I think that your placement of the b & g is great and a horizontal shot would have worked just as well here since the leading lines of the floor and the walls would still draw the eye strongly to the b & g

#2 - OK I'm not a big fan of angle shots (no secret there) so this also fails for me. As with #1 I think that you already had a strong image compositionally with that lovely glassy reflection of the wet ground and the brickwork behind the b & g. My view is that adding in the tilt should only be done if it is needed to add to the shot. Here it detracts and makes the whole composition a lot more claustrophobic.

#3 - This is great, tilt and all and as Andrew has already said, good control of DOF.

#4 - sorry this is just plain ugly. The woman has a less than flattering expression and the awful brown colour you've given her hair and the desaturated image just makes it worse - she just looks wan and sickly. I understand you were trying for a glamour treatment, but here I think it's done the opposite.

And so I come to the extra image you posted. It's not tilted (a plus ) but the strong horizontal stripes broken by the couple just doesn't work. It COULD have worked if there was a stronger tonal difference between the colour of the stripes and the colour of the clothes the b & g are wearing, but they're just too close. I think this shot would have worked much better if you moved the couple further forward, adjusted the DOF to throw the wall OOF and hit the couple with a bit of flash to stand them out more from the background.

And just so you don't think I'm all negative, in part 1 of this post you had some great shots from the same day - the first shot made wonderful use of the coloured pots and the 3rd shot did everything the stripy wall didn't do here - specifically you've used the lounge to pop the bride out of the shot away from the strong stripes of the background.

Sorry for not offering my critique before Dan. Don't take these as a personal attack on you as they're not.

#1 - It's a very contrasty image, but I think it would have been beneficial to bring the couple away from the wall say about 3 steps. They look quite constrained within that corner and it would have provided a bit more seperation between them and the wall. You would have been able to crop down the top left corner of the roof/ceiling as well. For me, it doesn't add much to it.

#2 - There's not much of a seperation between the subject and the background. Also backgrounds are the toughest to pay attention to, but there needs to be an eye for what is in the background as well. You'll see what I mean if you look towards the left and notice the guy with the red bag in the background waiting for the photos to be done.

#3 - What is the focus? Is it the rose or the 4 people? If it's the four people, then you'll probably need to re-compose the shot and light up the people a lot more.

#4 - I don't like the treatment at all - whether it's for a glamour shot or wedding shot, it just doesn't look right. Personally I use selective colouring sparingly and only when I want to highlight a item or portion of the image. Colouring the hair while leaving everything else in b&w doesn't add to the image.

Also don't take it personally if people say they don't like what you shoot. Maybe it's not to their tastes? If I felt like it was the end of the world because people didn't like my shots, I would have given up and hung myself by now Not everyone is a Wendell or a Stubbsy, etc. It'd be a pretty damn boring world if we all shot the same way, etc and everyone said they loved our work all the time.

Given the choice, I'd prefer if people shot down my work and gave me strict yet constructive criticism. You grow more from people saying they don't like your shots than from receiving praise all the time unless there's an ego that needs stroking then that's a different story.

I like the first two and also the 4th one just on B&W.

With the 2nd one you might be able to improve it if you incorporate more of pond and also the back ground structure.


Vincent

Awesome guys.thankyou thats the sort of help and advise i need..and i appreciate it very much

I think the biggest thing i may be doing wrong is having my subjects too close to the various backgrounds...would this be correct?

ONE MORE THING........i def have NOT taken any of this personally so please dont refrian from giving it to me if req

Cheers,

Dan

Firstly I'll say I'm not a wedding (or people for that matter) photog But having been a groom and customer I know what I like so take my comments from that direction. I'll add that I love your other work, but rarely comment due to the "me too" factor.

1. The angle really ruins this for me, if you want the angle make it smaller so they are closer to vertical. I would have also removed what looks to be a glass of beer from the seat to the right of the couple. As has been stated the strength of the leading lines takes you straight to the B+G, in this case I keep tilting my head to get the image I want to see.

2. I love the photo, the location, but once again not the angle, don't get me wrong this does work with the angle but perhaps more if it were less, still getting the statue in the frame. I don't know if you tried it but taken from further to your left, in landscape with the statue still in frame and less reflection may have worked (it may not of as well as I wasn't there )

3. I really like this, it would end up in my album, although if I had to nitpick I'd say make the stem shorter on the roses (personally I'd not have roses as I'm allergic to them but that's another story).

4. Whilst it's a great photo, it is not wedding album material, the look on her face says to me "What am I doing here and why and I doing this, and god where is my hairdresser!". But none the less, really like the photo and the PP treatment, just not for an album.

The single one on it's own, I would have liked to see a little tighter crop on the B+G, less wall, but still have wall in there...

Overall if you have more traditional poses and photos in the selection the Bride and Groom will be ecstatic to say the least, given the quality of these samples (and those in the other thread). Some out of the ordinary shots are great, sometimes the B+G will love them, other times they won't. If they do love them and you do as well, use them in your portfolio, it does make a bit of a difference to see a mix of traditional and not so traditional photos in there!

Brett

Some issues just keep coming back, and the angle shot is one of them. I recall a lengthy discussion on this some time ago (probably 2005).

I believe it is one of those compositional choices which some people like, and others do not like. Few are indifferent.

I don't like it myself, except perhaps if a specific element in the shot demands it, but I know many do. (I did like the angle shot when I had a 126 camera with a square image back in around 1962, and you could have that diamond thing going on in your photo album.) But I guess if you are shooting, for example, weddings, and the people paying the money like angles, you give 'em angles. Shame though.

granted i am in this "angle phase" i will settle it down

I used to be in this too, it settled down. I do throw the odd angle in if it compliments the shot, but its not every other shot like it used to be!

J

gstark wrote:

PiroStitch wrote:It's really only as lonely as you make it out to be.

Wayne,

That is so very true.

One of the strengths of our forum is that our members run the whole gamut of photography techniques and experience, and this thread, is a great example of this.

Dan's images are very different, and may not be to everyone's taste. That's how it is. Others have offered advice in good faith and Dan is free to accept or reject that advice, but it's offered in the genuine interests of trying to help improve the photographers' skillset.

Of course, that doesn't simply happen here (in this thread) and I'd certainly be interested in seeing Dan's observations on the merits of images shot by others. I don't think that we've seen too much of that as yet, and as most here will acknowledge, this passing around of infrrmation is - it must be - a two way street.

Gary, quick question on your last point. I for one post minimal amounts of criticism, be it good or bad on other users images simply because I do not feel I have the experience and so on. Is it then common that more experienced members would not critise my images due me not getting involved in that process for others? For me, its simply because I dont feel I'm adding any value here.

Just a general comment, and I'm not complaining about lack of comments on my images I think its a great forum and the system works really well but being a junior I feel I would only add to someones images when I know what im talking about  LOL

Kris,

Kris wrote:Gary, quick question on your last point. I for one post minimal amounts of criticism, be it good or bad on other users images simply because I do not feel I have the experience and so on. Is it then common that more experienced members would not critise my images due me not getting involved in that process for others?

Not at all. I subscribe to the theory that if one has nothing to say, then nothing is eaxactly what should be said. I suspect many others subscribe to a similar theory.

I believe then that this adds weight to any comments that I may then make, because they're not simply bandied about.

I'm of the belief that the last thing anyone wants is a long line of "great image" posts. Let's face it, the really great ones do stand on their own merit, but I find that sometimes I like to highlight the points of an image that either stand out - or perhaps completely spoil - the image for me.

I suspect that posters of images are looking for exactly that sort of feedback too, so if there's something about an image that strikes you - good or bad - by all means raise that as a talking point.
.

but being a junior I feel I would only add to someones images when I know what im talking about

How you react to an image is also important though, so please don't overlook that point. By posting your negative feelings (but in a positive manner) you will be helping.

Perfect Thank you!