Friends self-inflicted horrible D70 experience

[thehikingdude]

Here's how it starts, on 12-31-04 I get a D70. Shortly thereafter I mention to a friend of mine that I got a D70 - knowing that he has been wanting one.

So next he goes and gets a D70 w/ kit lens, 70-300G Lens, SB800 along with umbrellas, lights and a reverisible green/blue backdrop. All of this is in preperation for when his daughter, who is in college, comes back home.

Meanwhile he does virtually nothing with the camera for 4 months, just buying more and more gear - then his daughter shows up.

First he goes out and shoots many pictures, not knowing how to even use the camera and tells me all the pictures are out of focus. Come to find out he had the focus hard set to the far left position. Since he hadn't used the camera up until now he had no idea what he was doing.

I explained to him that even though he had many years of use with a Nikon F3 under his belt that there is quite a learning curve with the D70 and that he should give it another go.

Latest update is that he went out again and after 6 pictures his battery died. At this point he is ready to trash the camera, sell it or "stick it in a file cabinet to collect dust".

I feel kind of bad but at the same time wish he would take the time to learn how to use the camera. His complaint is that he has never, ever taken an out of focus picture until now and went from "Digital is replacing film" to "Digital is crap" in about 3 days.

At this point I'm not so sure that trying to get him to pursue it will make any difference or not. He is so depressed that he had been planning this photo shoot with his daughter for 4 months and now she is out of town again and he is figuring it was all a waste.

Any suggestions or should I just stay out of it?

[Aussie Dave]

perhaps you can point him in the direction of this forum ?? That way he can see what the D70 is capable if he is willing to learn the basics of the camera.

Otherwise, offer to buy the lot off him at a bargain price and he can go back to using his F3.

[thehikingdude]

I think I will let a couple of days pass and see how he feels about picking up the camera again. Hopefully I can talk a little sense into him.

If a person isn't willing to learn, I'm not sure how far they can get with something like a D70, unless they shoot in full auto mode; at which point it makes no sense to own a D70.

Who knows, maybe I will have to make him an offer. I wouldn't mind having a backup if the price is right.

[gstark]

Does he understand the concept of RTFM?

If he's using a 70-300G, apart from its natural softness, was he also perhaps handholding at ridiculously slow shutter speeds, and thus perhaps introducing camera shake into the mix?

As Dave suggested, point his nose towards these pages. The D70 is not a PHD camera, and it takes more than just a little bit of undserstanding to come to terms with it. Add an SB800 into the mix, and you have a learning curve that's steeper than any hill in San Francisco.

Otherwise, if he's up for the cost of air tix plus a week's accommodation, I'm sure I can take a few days to work with him and get him started.

Finally (and further to Dave's other suggestion), offer to supply and house the drawer within which it can gather dust.

[stormygirl]

This is terrible news!

I have only had my D70 for a short time, and really knew nothing about the digital world. It is such a HUGE learning curve, but I believe part of the fun, and belonging to this forum has been a wonderful experience for me as everyone is so encouraging.

I agree with Aussie Dave, and I'd point him in the direction of this forum. It would be such a shame to have spent all that money on a valuable piece of equipment and not even trying to learn how to use it. It can be very frustrating at times, but we have all been newbies at one stage, and with persistance and knowledge, the D70 is a magical tool!

I hope he doesn't give up hope, and learns to use it, and see what it is capable of!

[Greg B]

There are more differences than similarities between a film SLR camera and a digital SLR camera. They look similar and both take photographs, but then things go squirly.

I think your friend has massively underestimated the learning curve, and the best thing for him is to make a decision between making a concerted effort to learn about his d70 and digital, or stick with his comfort zone - film.

There is no half way.

Otherwise, buy his stuff.

[thehikingdude]

And I forgot to mention something which makes matters even worse. Are you sitting down???

He has no PC at home. Anything that he does has to be done at work. How much time does anybody have to spend at their workplace playing with a camera, downloading pics, editing, etc? I honestly think he thought he could just pick up the camera after watching a DVD that he bought on basic functions and just start shooting top level photos. I'm sorry, any device as technical as a D70 just can't be learned in a day - or in an hour in his case.

I will update all in a couple of days as to what happens.

-jeff

[Greg B]

Good grief!! He should stick to film.

(Just the fact that he doesn't have a computer at home tells us something about his take up of new technology)

[sirhc55]

Jeff - why not offer to sit in with him on a practice shoot and when his daughter comes back offer to shoot alongside him

[dooda]

Sounds like an overzealous salesperson making a little commission off of an overzealous prospect to digital. Sounds like he needs someone from up north to babysit his poor neglected equipment, something that I'd be more than happy to do.
The D70 was such a massive purchase for me (and it was my intro to photography) that I combed through the manual twice. I had the camera figured out and then I had to figure everything else out as well which I did here. Sounds like he was compensating for his lack of effort in acquiring knowledge with his checkbook.
I wish that there was a Newbie section here when I first joined, I would have dominated it. I'm sure that Greg and Onyx and Gary etc can attest to my complete innocence when it came to my level of photographic knowhow when I first joined. Now I'm reasonably comfortable with most of the basics. I learned most of it from here.

Hey hey, maybe we should have a D70 users meet on the Oregon coast, or on the Olypic Peninsula! I've always wanted to photograph down there. I have a sister that lives in Portland I could stay with, and we could show your friend the ins and outs of the D70! It would be the landmark inaugural international D70 users meet ever...History will be made (places hand over his heart and bows his head)

[kipper]

This is horrible and laughable at the same time. While you don't need a computer at home, you can shoot JPEG and develop them as you would normal film. However having a computer can turn that ordinary photo into something good ie. cropping, curve adjustments, filters etc. Seeing that he seems quite a beginner, I think it's vital for him to of had one before even considering going into digital. Then again I have family in the UK that were bought a P&S Digital without a PC. Also why on earth did the camera stay ion the draw for 4 months before his daughter came home? Shouldn't he of been familiarising himself with the camera. Because by the sounds of it, he certainly isn't. As for the focus sensor selection selected on the left/right/top/bottom. I do that plety of times by accident. When I mount the camera onto my tripod I manage to somehow knock the locking button off. Then when I put my face upto the viewfinder I accidently knock the selection button

[PlatinumWeaver]

Is it possible to really be this bad with the camera on Auto-everything?

Camera comes set to auto-focus.
Camera comes set to full-auto mode.
Flash pops up in Auto.
Auto-ISO is enabled by default.
Jpeg Large Fine is the default ( isn't it? )

Surely... surely.. you take the lens cap off and press the shutter and it will work.. you're not going to get A+ photos, but you'll get a relatively accurate picture of whatever you point the camera at....

Wont you?

[gstark]

Dave,

Hey hey, maybe we should have a D70 users meet on the Oregon coast, or on the Olypic Peninsula! I've always wanted to photograph down there. I have a sister that lives in Portland I could stay with, and we could show your friend the ins and outs of the D70! It would be the landmark inaugural international D70 users meet ever...History will be made (places hand over his heart and bows his head)

You'll need to be quick; there's a meet in Seoul this Saturday.

More seriously, that's not a bad idea, actually. The distances involved aren't overly heavy, and (in the US, at any rate) Memorial Day is but a month away.

As to Jeff's comment about not having a PC ... Lindy's brother has a Dribble; the old one. 256MB card, shooting in JPG, and no PC.

He had trouble this last weekend getting files off the CF and onto Lindy's PC (took me a few seconds and I burned them straight to CD) but in the process he tried returning the CF card to the camera and screwed up the power pin in the CF socket on the camera, which now needs to pay a visit to Mr Canon in Sydney.

Oh yes, did I mention that he's a professional movie cameraman, having been DoP for many tv shows and movies, including, IIRC, Stargate?

[dooda]

Yes if you don't mind the flash popping up every time you look hard at the shutter release button and the mindless beep of the focus. You can't blame someone for trying to get rid of those little details can you?

[gstark]

Dean,

Is it possible to really be this bad with the camera on Auto-everything?

Camera comes set to auto-focus.

Don't forget though that the default here is closest object. Even the merest thought of being arty-farty will screw you over in that mode.

[PiroStitch]

Good grief...good luck and it's good to hear that you're being patient with your friend about the D70, even though you probably feel like slapping him silly

Indeed the d70 has a steep learning curve esp with the SB800. My sister and her husband have the D70 as well and they're still pretty much using it as a P&S (though they know the basics of photography) and have been coming up with fantastic shots without PP.

Practice always makes perfect and a good workperson (to be PC) never blames his/her tools

[Killakoala]

Easy fix. Take him on a photo shoot with you and show him the basics. Then take him home and show him what PP is so he buys a computer.

I wish you luck and good fortune.

[darb]

Ignorance is bliss. Dont worry about him mate, just drop it.

When he sees some of your best shots printed out large, up on a wall, looking spectacular behind glass, he will come to realise your advice was fruitful.

Failing that, your friend is an idiot ...a nd you know what they say about arguing with idiots ...

ps, your friend needs to get a life, get out and about and find something more interesting than his daughter to take photos on a purpose-purchased $2k camera.

[darb]

ps, i have a mate who bought himself a d70 recently, he brought it on the weekend.

Sitting in green happy face mode, auto-ISO on, auto everythign on. Not a clue, or interest to get one, yet aspires to get into motorcross sports photography and has been apparently attending events trying his warez.

I just told him politely that he needs to get off his butt and learn his camera or else there's little point. At worst, if he stays a jpeg shooter with no PP/PC ... steal his camera for an hour & load a P&S custom curve in !

But then if he doesnt, oh well.

[kipper]

Darb omg, auto everything. I get angry when ever I knock my dial out of manual mode.

[darb]

Darb omg, auto everything. I get angry when ever I knock my dial out of manual mode.

yes i felt like saying "well hey cool seeing as you dont use this thing for sh1t, how about we swap, you wont mind the 10k shutter actuations" )

Christ, even when i hand the camera to the gf she'll know to use P mode, or ill set it up before handing it over. (usuall A and F8, if its bright and not a risk of slow shutter.)

[phillipb]

Remember the old saying "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink it"
If your friend doesn't want to learn ( which is evident by not using the camera for 4 months) then there's no point bashing your head against a brick wall. Offer to show him the basics but don't force the issue, it won't do any good.

[kipper]

Actually tell him there are some people here that will take it off his hands for $1k. Not me, but there was one chappy here who was interested in getting one but said he couldn't get one until the end of the year. Who was it again?

[Onyx]

Digitutor's calling

[stubbsy]

Darb omg, auto everything. I get angry when ever I knock my dial out of manual mode.

Kipper

We need to be careful. This guys a newb. When I started I was Auto everything for a month or so while I got used to the camera. Many others are probably the same.

If it weren't for this forum's mentoring I'd have been in A mode for a lot longer.

That said, I'm going omg at the arrogance of someone that thinks film expert = digital expert rather than newb. Does an expert typewriter user = an expert word processing user.

Of course his hubris may have been overstated (there's a small big word especially for Greg)

[Greg B]

Nice work Peter

[johndec]

Good grief Hiking Dude!! I don't mean to unkind but it seems your friend has too much money, not enough patience and no brains

I think you should leave him to his own devices, after all, some people won't be told....

[thehikingdude]

Jeff - why not offer to sit in with him on a practice shoot and when his daughter comes back offer to shoot alongside him

I would have done so very happily, but sadly he lives about 2000 miles away.

-jeff

[kipper]

Stubbsy, I found the transition fairly painless. If you've used a Nikon F80 before then the D70 is just like being at home. Yes there are a few things that I suppose a bit foreign. Eg. WB, Quality Settings (eg. NEF / JPEG) and the various image settings you can have (eg. portrait?, landscape?, vivid, custom etc). However the basic things like camera mode, metering modes, af-s/af-c etc are all common to most slrs.

[NetMagi]

I think, above all else, your friend had unrealistic expectations. I'm guessing his photo skills in general were a bit rusty, but he knew the value of shooting with good equipment. He figured these new-fangled whiz-bang digitals do everything for me and once I plunk down the cash I'm sure to shoot perfect pics every time.

The D70 was my first SLR. I always owned point and shoots before, and I had no idea what shutter, aperture, or anything else was. Within a week, I had a basic understanding what pretty much everything on the cam did, and was shooting everything that 'didn't move' in full manual. I love this hobby, I love this cam.

If a complete n00b can shoot manual in a weeks time and get the result he was looking for, your friend with past SLR experience should be able to get good shots within a few days of TRYING.

If that's too much for him, then recommend one of the higher-end prosumer P&S cams.

-Rich

[darb]

Darb omg, auto everything. I get angry when ever I knock my dial out of manual mode.

Kipper

We need to be careful. This guys a newb. When I started I was Auto everything for a month or so while I got used to the camera. Many others are probably the same.

If it weren't for this forum's mentoring I'd have been in A mode for a lot longer.

That said, I'm going omg at the arrogance of someone that thinks film expert = digital expert rather than newb. Does an expert typewriter user = an expert word processing user.

Of course his hubris may have been overstated (there's a small big word especially for Greg)

whats wrong with A mode? (when the situation warrants.)

[dooda]

I pretty much shoot in A (apeture not auto right?) mode 85% of the time, as all things equal it has the greatest bearing on the quality of the photo graph (assuming ISO 200 NEF etc). I could care less what the shutter speed is so long as it is fast enough to get a sharp pic. If the shutter speed is going to be slow then I start on other options (Tripod, wider apeture etc).

[Aussie Dave]

One thing I read somewhere a long time ago, which I always try and work by is to use Aperture Priority if you need to be selective about DOF, Shutter Priority if you need to capture the speed of your subject (freeze or motion blur), or use Manual if you need to determine both, and don't trust your camera to work it out (or if the scene is tricky to expose).

I personally have never used any of the Auto or presets on the D70, only ever used the A, S or M. I wouldn't say that the presets are useless but I prefer to be in charge of what the camera does (to the most part anyway).
For those that can't be bothered or are very new to photography, the auto functions would certainly make the camera "less daunting".

[stubbsy]

Darb omg, auto everything. I get angry when ever I knock my dial out of manual mode.

Kipper

We need to be careful. This guys a newb. When I started I was Auto everything for a month or so while I got used to the camera. Many others are probably the same.

If it weren't for this forum's mentoring I'd have been in A mode for a lot longer.

That said, I'm going omg at the arrogance of someone that thinks film expert = digital expert rather than newb. Does an expert typewriter user = an expert word processing user.

Of course his hubris may have been overstated (there's a small big word especially for Greg)

whats wrong with A mode? (when the situation warrants.)

Got me Darb

I shoot in A mode almost exclusively and rarely in M. What I meant was "I'd have been in Auto mode for a lot longer"

[thehikingdude]

UPDATE: I spoke with my buddy today and he only had a couple of things to say.

1. He doesn't want to hear anything about cameras or photography.
2. He also said that he would rather let the camera rot in his file cabinet, along with all the other new gear, instead of having someone else "take advantage of his misfortune".

So that's it for now. He refuses to give it another go, won't sell it and wants nothing to do with photography for now at least.

I may bring it up in 2-3 weeks to see how he reacts. I must admit that he has been through some hard times lately, but this is not the way to deal with a problem as far as I'm concerned.

-jeff

[horstflotow]

And I forgot to mention something which makes matters even worse. Are you sitting down???

He has no PC at home. Anything that he does has to be done at work. How much time does anybody have to spend at their workplace playing with a camera, downloading pics, editing, etc? I honestly think he thought he could just pick up the camera after watching a DVD that he bought on basic functions and just start shooting top level photos. I'm sorry, any device as technical as a D70 just can't be learned in a day - or in an hour in his case.

I will update all in a couple of days as to what happens.

-jeff

Just as an interim solution (until your friend gets a PC or sells you his D70), he can perhaps view his pics on a TV through the AV cable. I'm not sure how this works as I haven't used this but it can't be too difficult, it would give him a chance to play with the camera and familiarize himself with it before he starts to use it as a paperweight. Don't be too harsh on him though, people like him buying these cameras keep the prices down for the rest of us.

Regards

Horst

[Nnnnsic]

Christ.

Tell the guy to RTFM and get on with it.

What a waste of a camera.

[MHD]

Indeed... enough to make a grown gearfreak cry...

[thehikingdude]

Just as an interim solution (until your friend gets a PC or sells you his D70), he can perhaps view his pics on a TV through the AV cable.

That relates to one of his other recent problems. He has a Sony Plasma TV that is 18 months old, 52" I believe. Guess what, it recently stopped working and he doesn't want to pay for the out of warranty repair. They've agreed to cut him a deal and ask that all he pay is half the labor. He's already stated that if they don't agree to pay for it 100% that he is going to set the TV on the curb and spray paint "Sony Sux" on the tube and let it sit there.

Trust me, I am not making this stuff up.

-jeff

[Aussie Dave]

I guess your friend could look at it this way.....in 100 years time when the D70 is a collector's item....it will be worth a mint. "Only had a dozen photos run through it and the LCD cover is still like brand new !"

[Nnnnsic]

Sounds like your friend is a delluded spoiled bratty idiot.

Send him to the next 2600 meet and let them show him the ways of the force.

[gstark]

Jeff,

he is going to set the TV on the curb and spray paint "Sony Sux" on the tube and let it sit there.

At least that's an accurate statement.

But the warranty does have to end at a certain point, which he would (should) have known before entering into the purchase. I think a 50% deal is quite acceptable under the circumstances.

[Neeper]

Wow, how old is your friend?

[genji]

shouldnt this post be under the "Humour" section, I'm having a good laugh over this!

[thehikingdude]

Wow, how old is your friend?

I believe he is in his mid-40's.

[thehikingdude]

Jeff,

he is going to set the TV on the curb and spray paint "Sony Sux" on the tube and let it sit there.

At least that's an accurate statement.

But the warranty does have to end at a certain point, which he would (should) have known before entering into the purchase. I think a 50% deal is quite acceptable under the circumstances.

Agreed, I would jump all over the offer.

[Paul]

Wow what a story to tell! I can't see the reasoning behind the huge cost he has spent on this equipment to "let it rot in the drawer", this guy must have to much money to burn in my opinion.
Lets hope he has a garage sale soon.

[kipper]

UPDATE: I spoke with my buddy today and he only had a couple of things to say.

1. He doesn't want to hear anything about cameras or photography.
2. He also said that he would rather let the camera rot in his file cabinet, along with all the other new gear, instead of having someone else "take advantage of his misfortune".

I was going to reply and say your friend is an idiot. Then I just noticed your location and I had my answer.

Edit. you're in the minority

[darb]

did he vote for GWB ?

[thehikingdude]

did he vote for GWB ?

Heck no! He hates Bush to the core.

Neither of us voted for him.