DSLRUsers.com

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0604/06042 ... phaslr.asp

And based on Konica Minolta mount

These cameras are not for Gary, Leigh and other Sony hater

I spit on the new sony slr!

nito wrote:I spit on the new sony slr!

nito,
Maybe next Nikon DSLR FF will be with Sony CCD

I've always hated the CCD in my camera anyway. Spat in it multiple times.

I thought konica minolta was getting out of the camera market cos they are crap anyhow.

where does that leave the sony??

steve

I'm not a Sony hater, I just think they make some dumb decisions (All six hundred and forty-two Memory Stick formats, UMD, HiMD, PS3 (delay, build components, likely price...)).

In fact, I was a very big advocator of Konica Minolta digital cameras, both PHD's and DSLR's for the sort of technology they were sticking in them.

I‘m fairly sure that 99% of Nikon digital camera users on this forum would be using a Sony CCD. I, on the other hand, am one of the few with a Nikon developed CMOS

sirhc55 wrote:I‘m fairly sure that 99% of Nikon digital camera users on this forum would be using a Sony CCD. I, on the other hand, am one of the few with a Nikon developed CMOS

Long live the LBCAST.

... Obsolete ...

sony products suffer because the bottom line is always profit.
Apple suffered the same way, only clever marketing saved them.

Last I recall, the Sony CRT's that could not be beat were rebadged Mitsubishi's.

The MD technology was good but was then destroyed with DRM when the first and last generation of HiMD hit the market.

They'll probably screw this one up too.

It's not so much Sony's marketing as their intense desire to control their formats and products which turns prospective partners away..

Perhaps another Sony vs Nikon

I think that most people who hate Sony products are quite justified in their hatred, although there are the odd product that Sony produce which offer high quality performance e.g. F828 - try it out, you'' be suprised

Crus

xorl wrote:It's not so much Sony's marketing as their intense desire to control their formats and products which turns prospective partners away..

I think it's their arrogance, coupled with the way they treat their customers as absolute morons and with less than zero respect whatsoever, combined with an absence of quality in many of their products.

Would be interesting to see what the other camera manufacturers do since Sony supplies them with most of their sensors or at least manufactures them for them. For the sensors that have gone into Nikon DSLRs, they seem to be more of a joint effort between Sony and Nikon - or at least have Nikon design tweaks to them (eg. the Sony CCD for the D70 - although the smae basic CCD is used in the KM and Pentax 6MP cams, the D70's one is different in that it's the only one with an electronic shutter).

Wonder how will it play now with Sony saying they want 20% of the DSLR market. Sony could withhold technology from the people they supply to (eg. the four colour RGBE Bayer filter) and keep it for themselves or increase prices to give them an advantage.

Nikon have been saying they pick the best sensor available to them at the time for the requirements. I've read that Nikon have 3 sensor design groups (CMOS, LBCAST and CCD), wonder how far they've come along and will we start seeing fully Nikon designed sensors in more Nikon cameras or will they continue to buy the from what's available.

Sony bites bums.

Their maintenance policy is what drove me away from them.

Guys, guys such vindictiveness...

Although most of it is justified lets not lose the fact that Sony is a company renown for innovation and they occassionally do get things right.

I think Sony will bring out a entry level (e.g. D50) and mid range (e.g. D70) DSLR's utilising a improved version of their 10 mp R1 CMOS sensor (I think the technology behind the multi A/D, muti-read CCD is exclusive to Nikon cameras as is the D2X crop CMOS).

I think specs wise it will be similar to the D70s with a few Sony extras but much cheaper.

I also think they will not focus or go up head-to-head against Nikon and Canon in established markets like USA and Western Europe (this would be too hard) but will target emerging markets where they have greater brand presence and penetration such as China and India.

Nikon Zeiss and Sony...... now thats interesting

anubis wrote:I think specs wise it will be similar to the D70s with a few Sony extras

That would be the part that I think would be most worriesome.

Memory Stick instead of CF or SD. So you'll pay three times the price for one third the storage.

The batteries will cost at least one third the price of the camera.

The build quality will be horrendous, and the battery charger connections to the battery will start to fail after about ten months.

But it will include a cellphone capability.

I also think they will not focus or go up head-to-head against Nikon and Canon

That's a given. Sony's QC is so poor that they wouldn't have a snowflake's hope in hell of competing in the pro market, which is where the profit margins live.

In the amatuer markets, again, people in the know will be buying Canon, Nikon and Pentax - and maybe even Olympus - because they make glass that is usable.

So too did Konica Minolta in the days of yore. I don't think there's any expectation from anyone that Sony will be making great glass anytime soon (or ever) so that leaves them awash in the trailerpark appliance and phd market.

Which is sadly where we'll see the eventual demise of what was once an outstanding manufacturer of fim cameras, Minolta.

So what we have here is

(a) Specialist Glass manufactures - Canon, Nikon, Ziess etc,

(b) Specialist consumer electronic manufactures - Samsung, Sony, LG, Philips, etc

(c) Specialist firmware / software engineers/ designers

Trying to integrate one common package that will be sold at a price that consumers will pay.

Ivanerrol wrote:So what we have here is

(a) Specialist Glass manufactures - Canon, Nikon, Ziess etc,

(b) Specialist consumer electronic manufactures - Samsung, Sony, LG, Philips, etc

(c) Specialist firmware / software engineers/ designers

Trying to integrate one common package that will be sold at a price that consumers will pay.

Remember though that Nikon and Canon have both been making lenses for a very long time, and they've both also been making cameras - mechanical and electronic - for well over 20 years too.

That kind of eliminates any issues regarding specialist firmware from their ballparks - they've been doing this for a very long time, and the control mechanisms are well in place.

Further, one of Nikon's specialities is optical equipment and technology, and not just for cameras. Wander into your local optometrist and check out the Nikon gear there.

In this realm, Sony are minnows, and again, they still have serious QC and pricing/customer attitude issues that they need to address.

I'm not expecting them to be a serious contender at all in this market: it's simply not their ballpark.

Rendering of live images to electronics is a big step up from the mechanics and simple electronic control systems of cameras

I have just seen a Panasonic 6Mp P&S with a Leica Lens. - Another consumer electronic company with a traditional glass manufacturer.

Ivanerrol wrote:Rendering of live images to electronics is a big step up from the mechanics and simple electronic control systems of cameras

But only Olympus renders live images into a DSLR. Nikon does not. Canon do not. Pentax do not.

And significantly, the K-Ms , which is the technology that Sony are squandering, do not.

I have just seen a Panasonic 6Mp P&S with a Leica Lens. - Another consumer electronic company with a traditional glass manufacturer.

Yep. That's been the case for a number of years now. The name on the lens is certainly Leica. But where is the glass manufactured? And to what standards? Whose design?

Rest assured that this is not your grandfather's Leica glass.

Sony may have had their problems over the years but they do deserve accolades for these:

World’s first transistor TV - 1960
World’s first compact transistor VTR - 1963
World’s first home use open reel VTR - 1965
World’s first CD player -1982
World’s first continuous wave room temperature operation of blue semiconductor lasers - 1993
World’s first high brightness green light emitting diode - 1994
World’s first broadcast use HD camcorder - 1997
World’s first high capacity optical disc Blu-ray recorder - 2003

Yep. That's been the case for a number of years now. The name on the lens is certainly Leica. But where is the glass manufactured? And to what standards? Whose design?

Zeiss - Cosina?? FM10a - Cosina?? Voigtlander - Cosina?? Leica - Cosina??

Chris,

Interesting list.

I note that the most recent consumer device on the list dates back to 1982. 24 years ago.

I think that sums up their current status vis a vis being a true leader in this realm.

Ivanerrol wrote:

Yep. That's been the case for a number of years now. The name on the lens is certainly Leica. But where is the glass manufactured? And to what standards? Whose design?

Zeiss - Cosina?? FM10a - Cosina?? Voigtlander - Cosina?? Leica - Cosina??

I'm sorry, but perhaps I'm a bit slow this morning. I haven't the foggiest idea of what you're trying to say here.

Sorry to say, but Cosina are manufactering products for the mentioned companies either under license or they have bought the company.
e.g Voigtlander is now controlled by Cosina. The FM10a is made for Nikon by Cosina. The Ziess lenses that are available for Nikon are MUL by Cosina etc etc.

Ivanerrol wrote:Sorry to say, but Cosina are manufactering products for the mentioned companies either under license or they have bought the company.
e.g Voigtlander is now controlled by Cosina. The FM10a is made for Nikon by Cosina. The Ziess lenses that are available for Nikon are MUL by Cosina etc etc.

I'm still not understanding your point?

This thread is about Sony making DSLRs. What is the relevance of products that Cosina make to Sony making DSLRs? Where is the connection?

And FTR, whomever makes whatever products for whomever, it's the owner of the name on the end product that takes responsibility for the quality of the end product. So, regardless of whomever makes the, for instance, FM10a, Nikon ensures that it meets their quality standards.

And a Zeiss lens going on a Panasonic PHD will be designed and built to standards set by Panasonic, not by Zeiss. It'll be ok glass, but not stellar.

avkomp wrote:I thought konica minolta was getting out of the camera market cos they are crap anyhow.

where does that leave the sony??

steve

Konica Minolta left the photographic business, but as a result, Sony took over and bought most of SLR and lens technologies from Minolta (except some of recent Minolta inventions), and 'evolve' them into Sony DSLR. And for the market out there, all Minolta will disappear and come back with a new tag, named "SONY"...

So, in any terms, its a Konica with a Sony sensor/OS.

is it me or does it appear that all of the new tele lens from sony dont feature internal focus?

http://www.dpreview.com/articles/sonydslra100/
http://www.letsgodigital.org/en/news/ar ... _8382.html

Well I don't know about you guys, but this looks like a very competitive camera. For US$899 (body only) or $999 with 18-70 kit, you get (probably) the D200 sensor, anti-shake in the body, anti-sensor-dust mechanism, eye-start AF (if you're into that), compatability with KM mount lenses, and it takes CF cards (and MS Duo via adapter). Specs-wise the only things you miss out on with respect to a D200/30D are only 3 fps and 2/3 stop slower X-sync, no vertical grip. Sure, these may be deal-breakers, but it's half the price of a D200, and certainly looks better than the D70 and 350D in that price range. The lens selection looks pretty nice as well. I'm always a bit suspicious of Sony's business activities, but for the price it looks excellent IMO!

Trent,

But it'll only last as long as the battery does.

Which will be about a week longer than the warranty.



Seriously, for those with KM lenses, this would possibly be a good buy, because it will largely be a KM camera, with the majority of the engineering done before Sony got their greasy paws onto it.

(and MS Duo via adapter)

ROTFLMAO.

As if!

After checking out the sample pics I seriously believe that Sony may have a winner:

http://www.dpreview.com/gallery/sonya100_preview/