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Aussie Dave wrote:I personally have never used any of the Auto or presets on the D70, only ever used the A, S or M.

I'm nice to my camera and shoot mostly in A, I go easy on the S & M.

If he is afraid of letting someone else profit over his mistake(how would someone else profit over a piece of crap?), then he knows that he has a good camera in his posession, and his actions probably have nothing to do with a D70 or even photography in general. He is willingly punishing himself by not learning it, and he knows that someone else could make it work well and he wants to punish them too. The only justice (albeit a perverted form of justice) is for him to put it in the drawer so that everyone is upset; and he has a constant reminder of the world's cruelty to him.

Perhaps he was hoping that a D70 + gear would magically fill a void in his life without putting forth any effort?

So I think that this fellow is dealing with some things that go much further than simply not learning his camera quickly. There is a wonderful little book called leadership and Self Deception, or another called "The Bonds that make us free" and they talk about people who willingly displace themselves and others because they feel more comfortable with it. Believe it or not almost every person does this to a certain extent, but this fellow's situation is more obvious.

I could be overanalyzing a tad, but a situation like this just begs for it.

dooda wrote:If he is afraid of letting someone else profit over his mistake(how would someone else profit over a piece of crap?), then he knows that he has a good camera in his posession, and his actions probably have nothing to do with a D70 or even photography in general. He is willingly punishing himself by not learning it, and he knows that someone else could make it work well and he wants to punish them too. The only justice (albeit a perverted form of justice) is for him to put it in the drawer so that everyone is upset; and he has a constant reminder of the world's cruelty to him.

Perhaps he was hoping that a D70 + gear would magically fill a void in his life without putting forth any effort?

So I think that this fellow is dealing with some things that go much further than simply not learning his camera quickly. There is a wonderful little book called leadership and Self Deception, or another called "The Bonds that make us free" and they talk about people who willingly displace themselves and others because they feel more comfortable with it. Believe it or not almost every person does this to a certain extent, but this fellow's situation is more obvious.

I could be overanalyzing a tad, but a situation like this just begs for it.

Ding ding ding!!!!!! You hit the nail right on the head and in more ways than one.

Very good analysis. Seriously.

Great thread.

While not wanting to justify anything jeff's mate has done or said, I feel a bit sorry for him. He is having a bad run (even if wholly or partly self inflicted), and it is hard to think straight and make good decisions when you have convinced yourself you are a victim.

Unfortunately, this approach tends to be self perpetuating - if you reckon the world is out to get you (so to speak), pretty soon it probably will be.

If you think it is preferable to rail against setbacks rather than fixing them, or believing you can fix them, you are destined to be miserable. If you are happy being miserable, then you'll be miserable and happy at the same time.

I think he needs a hug.

Good Call Greg. I feel kind of bad for him in a sense, but in another sense I want to yell at him to climb out. Perhaps you can combine a hug with a good kick in the youknowwhat?
And thanks for posting this story Hiking dude. Funny, i'd have never thought to post about my idiot friends (of which I have a few) and let us hash it over, but it has become a great thread.

Greg and Dooda,

I feel the same way. I've tried to be helpful, regardless of the distance between us, but he doesn't want to hear that he might be in some need of help. I've never understood people that refuse to ask for, let alone accept help from others.

And I can't hardly imagine buying that much new equipment, with very little familiarity of digital cameras and then expect to have wonderful pictures the first time out of the gate. That's part of the fun of any new technology, learning what you can do, sometimes can't and how to enhance as you go.

Hopefully someday he will have second thoughts and decide to open the drawer, wipe of the dust and give it another try. But in all honesty I have my doubts.

I never had the slightest clue that this thread would grow this much. I'm actually amazed to be real honest. Now I have to hope that he never finds this forum or this thread, but believe me when I say I didn't start this in an effort to bash him. It was more out of curiosity to see how others might try to assist.

If things ever change I will be sure to post an update.

Thanks to all for your input!

-jeff

UPDATE:

My buddy actually got his camera out of the file cabinet and gave it another try. This time he seems to have gotten the focus to work but he still doesn't know how to get accurate lighting.

I offered to have him ship the camera to me to give it a tune up, load a custom curve, etc. - he refuses. He says that any camera that costs this much money shouldn't need to be fine tuned, it should shoot perfectly right out of the box.

So at this point he says he's sticking it back in the file cabinet to rot and will never buy another Nikon product again. And get this, he still owes $1075US on the purchase.

Oh well, I tried again.

-jeff

thehikingdude wrote:He says that any camera that costs this much money shouldn't need to be fine tuned, it should shoot perfectly right out of the box.

Just like it's pointless to improve a Porsche's already good performance after you buy one? Deadset, this guy should do stand-up: he's got me in stitches!

Tell him to buy a Canon EOS-1D MKII. Say that the extra cost of this camera is worth it, it will allow him to take a perfect shot straight out of the box. It will provide a nice bit of company for the lonely D70 in the filing cabinet.

What do you call a person who always blames his tools At least the filing cabinet seems to be working perfectly

sirhc55 wrote:At least the filing cabinet seems to be working perfectly

There must be something wrong with it - it's full of c**p!

Cheers

sirhc55 wrote:What do you call a person who always blames his tools

Prime Minister or Mr President, depending upon country of residence.

What I just can't understand, is why get a camera with a whole slew of controls and then refuse to use them?

He may as well just stick with dispoable cameras. Without a flash of course, just one more thing to not work right.

UPDATE:
It will be a priority to sell this garbage camera to
anyone for any price....unbelieveable Nikon trash. I'm
done with digital trash!! I took THREE pictures this
Christmas...never looked at them...unbelieveable...just
unbelieveably BAD BAD BAD results. It took 10 minutes to
dig out the manual to FIND the self-focus button! The
shirts that my daughter and I are wearing are VIVID BLUE
with BRIGHT YELLOW triangles. You'd never know it.
NO MORE NIKONS! Its take very special goofy technology to FOCUS ON THE
TREE in the 2 inches between my daughter's faces!!! OMG!!

=============================================

Of course my own D70 is still taking beautiful photos. I'm considering purchasing the whole system from him.

-jeff

I am - still - amused by this guy's theatrics. I am even considering this as a second body (for my +1... )

Very amusing. He sounds like someone I (unfortunately) know.

I think you have much more patience than I, though....

thehikingguide

send him to any number of d70 galleries (mine if you like) and gently remind him he has no friggin idea what he's talking about, and he's the problem

Geeze... can he operate a toaster?

Toasters require bread.

Just like cameras require intelligence most of the time.

Not to suggest that this guy is an idiot... no... I wouldn't do that.

I'll let someone else do it.

Good luck with the second cheaper system!

Tell him I'll give him a hundred bucks for it , to get rid of that dirty Nikon stuff.

I'll do him that favour.


MATT

I've learned that he has problems with almost everything in his life. The only thing he owns that he is pleased with is a Nintendo Game Cube.

Believe me, he looks at my web site and used to have lots of nice things to say about them. I don't even ask him anymore since his hatred of all digital cameras is now so strong.

I forgot to mention, the subject line of his email to me was: Possibly the worst camera ever made

Hard to respond to that. Basically I asked what all he had and how much he wants for it. I can't wait to hear was he has to say when he finds out I bought a Nikon Coolpix 7900 just to have a P&S again to go along with my D70.

Here's the pic referring to focusing in between his daughters. Gosh, I wonder how that happened?



This is no joke, just one example of why he hates the D70 so much. If only he were to read the manual, visit a forum, ask for help, etc.

The saga continues.........................

-jeff

MATT wrote:Tell him I'll give him a hundred bucks for it , to get rid of that dirty Nikon stuff.

I'll do him that favour.


MATT

Now there's an idea, let's start bidding for his Nikon trash.

I up the bid to $200US.

-jeff

darb wrote:thehikingguide

send him to any number of d70 galleries (mine if you like) and gently remind him he has no friggin idea what he's talking about, and he's the problem

Sorry Darb, but I checked your crap gallery and your pics are even worse than mine. No way would I have him look at your photos. You just don't get it, digital is pure crap. No D70 has ever taken a decent photo - never has and never will.

Your nighttime camp site photo is easily hands down the worst image and biggest waste of bandwidth I've ever seen in my life. Obvisouly came out of D70.

I just came across this thread. What a sad sequence of events but I am afraid quite a few people do think that an SLR would wonderously transform their picture. Its hard to make sense to such people.

The D70 is a huge learning curve. I went from a PS to one and nearly suffered a brain embolism. Add a decent flash and it becomes a nightmare. I can honestly say that my shots are slowly getting much better through the help of this forum.

I think it a case of your friend being scared to admitt that he's photography skills are not quite proficent. Rather blame the camera and everything else under the sun than blame my ignorance.

Be a friend and take the camera off him. Then take what you need and sell the rest on the forum so we can all benefit from a person's ignorance.

EDIT: May be the thread should be changed to the D70's bad experiecne with my friend.

Looking at the pic of his daughters you have to wonder why he didn't notice the problem when he composed the shot and at the very least moved the bloody camera to get a focus lock on the correct subject (yes I know there's a proper way to do this but that would entail reading the manual!).

I've followed this entire saga. It's a great example of a self fulfilling prophecy. AT the beginning he decided he didn't like all this digital stuff and he rolled every obstacle in his path to successful captures to prove his (possibly subconscious) decision. Maybe he'll revisit this whole digital saga in years to come, have horrible memories of those crap Nikon cameras and be a Canon convert since they take fantastic images (once he takes the time on his second visitation to the world of digital to learn how to use the bloody thing!).

Does this twit have any idea that he's actually pointing the focusing sensor on the tree between his two daughters? I think there should be some sort of licencing system for DSLRs. My Dad bought a Minolta 7000 when it first was released, don't think he used it in anything other than auto mode. I think it either started to take crap photos, or it was him The photos were in focus thank god, but they use to just come out looking desaturated and low contrast. Think we tried a few different labs to rule that out. Anyway he's learnt his ways, and his current camera is still film but just a P&S. Oh and might I say, I used one at christmas and it took me two shots to realise that I hadn't set the flash to be on At that stage I had to press a button to put it on. You see, cameras don't do everything for you!

thehikingdude wrote:even though he had many years of use with a Nikon F3 under his belt...

He should know better.
Why not get him to turn the dial to AUTO, turn the lens switrch to MANUAL FOCUS and hey presto, problem solved, he should know how to work it...

thehikingdude wrote: he looks at my web site and used to have lots of nice things to say about them.

the subject line of his email to me was: Possibly the worst camera ever made
-jeff

Does this mean he now has a computer? Or does he zip down to the internet cafe for such things?

I remember this thread when it started. It was again an entertaining read.

What a wanker.
It's clear from the photo he hasn't looked at the manual, even as far as focus lock, or DOF preview. I tried to see the exif info on that photo but it's not there. Would have been interesting. Yes, it looks like he used centre focus (Isn't that tree perfectly SHARP and CLEAR??) Pity he didn't use AUTO mode for that snap, it would have worked. Probably. No guarantees with this guy, he might have shook the camera or had a dirty lens or SOMETHING else to go wrong...

My experience went from SLR's (Minolta XGM, X300) to Nikon F80 to (the end of film for me) Olympus C750 (replaced with a C770 under warranty) to D70
I don't think I've used AUTO since the day I got it when I first had a play.
I generally use P mode and use the command dials to customize for what I'm trying to achieve, switching to A or S if the need arises. Haven't used any of those other selections.

Really a bloody sad situation but no great loss, if he can't even be bothered to give it to his daughter so she can learn how to use it, then show him, well there's no hope and he can wallow away in self pity, I'm sure we don't really care. Suffice to say, what a waste.

tasadam wrote:Does this mean he now has a computer? Or does he zip down to the internet cafe for such things?

Yes, he now has a computer - but I'm not too concerned about him finding this thread. If he'd found this forum he might have learned a thing or two.

I checked the attachments he sent me and there's no photo data available. If I thought it would help I would offer advice again, but I've offered a number of times to no avail.

That photo is an example of why people need to RTFM for issues like focusing.

If he claims he has experience in photography before, why the hell doesn't he just switch to manual focusing?

And he doesn't have problems with his Gamecube. Huh.

He'd probably suck at a DS... all that interactivity with the stylus... he'd probably end up poking his eye out with it!

I finally worked out what RTFM means! LOL

I simply cant understand how anyone can go from using film SLR camera to using a DSLR camera and just have no idea at all! I mean its not all that much different, you just need to find where to change the settings. He seems to have forgotten even the most basics of basics over night.

If it were my friend being so pig headed about it id be telling them never to talk photography with me EVER!

Take his camera gear off him, give him a goat and a little wagon and send him out to tend the fields far, far away from anything electronic. Heaven help his poor offspring...

What a hoot of a thread! But not surprising, your friend fits into the category of car drivers who don't know where the petrol cap is or what is under the bonnet.

Wondering what else you can do and thought your friend needs to be the camera. Tell him to get into a zen state and stand back.

I have suggested that he take-up painting. This would give him full control of the subject focus, depth of field, brightness, contrast, color depth, etc. And he won't even have to turn on his computer.

-jeff

Good suggestion Jeff. Your mate is fundamentally self destructive with a strong desire to fail, while blaming everything else but himself. I feel sorry for him, but we probably all have a friend who can snatch defeat from the jaws of victory!! I know that I do.

Greg B wrote:Your mate is fundamentally self destructive with a strong desire to fail, while blaming everything else but himself.

You must know him very well. You described him to a tee.

Todays Update:

Here's an online chat between me and you know who. He had started asking me about the replacement battery for the D70:

==============================================
me - Nope. I need to send in my old one first before they will send me the replacement.

Him - Since FOUR people worldwide have had a problem, it isn't any rush to me. More SUV's blowup everyday than that

me - LOL!

Him - And it can take them a year to get me a new battery....and I still won't use the daxx camera.

me - I swear you got a bad one. My focus works great.

Him - I will break the "autofocus" button off the lens first. Manual focus is the only way to go. You saw the results...what frosts me most is that last fall I took one picture of xxxxx and xxxxx standing 10 feet away on the college campus....the camera focused 50 feet behind them on the TREES....is this a D70-Trees model or what?

me - You need to look to see which auto-focus segment is locking on. You can either go with closest object or select a specific one to use. For the Christmas pics I used the closest object for the first time and was very pleased with how it worked. And with the SB-800 bouncing off the ceiling with the diffuser worked out awesome!

Him - nope...I've tried them all...if I want it to concentrate LEFT...it will GO RIGHT......I WILL NEVER USE THE AUTO FOCUS ON THAT CAMERA (or the camera for that matter) again! IT DOES NOT WORK!

Him - but the focus is only one part....the color suxx....the flash suxx....the setup (told you I spent 10 minutes cursing trying to find the freakin self timer!!!)

Him - The LCD screen is unreadable...I'm over 50...I can not see the screen icons let alone understand what they suppose to mean....like it would have cost them money to BACKLIGHT the crap!

Him - I think the resolution at 6Mpel is 1/10th film quality...and color and sharpness on film is 10000000 times better.

me - no comment

Him - don't take my Kodachrome awaaaaaaayyyyyyy
===========================================

-jeff

straight up, he's dumb. i have no doubt he's doing something wrong but if it was the camera is he took it back those issues would be covered under warrantee. to find the self timer he could have spent 30 seconds looking it up in the manual but no. *shakes head*

thehikingdude wrote:

darb wrote:thehikingguide

send him to any number of d70 galleries (mine if you like) and gently remind him he has no friggin idea what he's talking about, and he's the problem

Sorry Darb, but I checked your crap gallery and your pics are even worse than mine. No way would I have him look at your photos. You just don't get it, digital is pure crap. No D70 has ever taken a decent photo - never has and never will.

Your nighttime camp site photo is easily hands down the worst image and biggest waste of bandwidth I've ever seen in my life. Obvisouly came out of D70.

you know, youre right.

ssh darb@darbsplace
password
su -
password
rm -rf /storage/davidsonimagery
rm -rf /disk2/backups/davidsonimagery
logout

Aussie Dave
Consider this...if you are in A Mode and choose f11 and the camera chooses shutter speed 1/60

Then...if you go to S mode and choose 1/60 then the camera will STILL choose f11

And If you are in P mode and cycle through the available settings then eventually f11 @ 1/60th will appear in your viewfinder.

This presumes that you are metering the same scene under the same light.

Soi it really doesn't matter which mode you are in providing you understand what the camera is doing.
I apologise if you already knew this but I took my clue from your post in this thread. Feel free to whip me.

Stay on topic, darb.

Nnnnsic wrote:Stay on topic, darb.

edited due to Gstark complaint.

I met a person recently who has a canon 20D, a 580 flash unit and no idea how to use either.

They insisted on using both the camera and flash on manual when asked "Why?" the reply was "Everyone knows using manual gives you better photos"

They had no idea of the capabilities of the camera and would have been better off with a point and shoot.

Sadly there are way too many people like this out there that think a camera takes the photos not the photographer.

As for the guy in question if you like direct him to my website and get him to tell me what shots are shot on film and what ones are shot on digital.


I will bet he does not make more than 50% correct guesses


My email is on the website if he is willing to take the challenge I will be interested to hear from him, we could make the bet say his D70 against my FM

Jeff I would be happy to send you a list of what images are film and what are shot on digital to make it fair!

nito wrote:I just came across this thread. What a sad sequence of events but I am afraid quite a few people do think that an SLR would wonderously transform their picture. Its hard to make sense to such people.

The D70 is a huge learning curve. I went from a PS to one and nearly suffered a brain embolism. Add a decent flash and it becomes a nightmare. I can honestly say that my shots are slowly getting much better through the help of this forum.

I think it a case of your friend being scared to admitt that he's photography skills are not quite proficent. Rather blame the camera and everything else under the sun than blame my ignorance.

Be a friend and take the camera off him. Then take what you need and sell the rest on the forum so we can all benefit from a person's ignorance.

EDIT: May be the thread should be changed to the D70's bad experiecne with my friend.

Agreed that this guy does seem like he isnt willing to help himself, however, I do also sympathise to a certain extent. With the dSLR's there are so many more options, which gives so many more opportunities to screw up. Film, to me, IS a lot easier in a lot of ways. I loved doing B&W darkroom work, but colour neg prints were easy.

I still have a lot of frustration with exposure and AF on the D70 compared to my old F601 (which I mainly used to shoot chrome with). I trusted the matrix meter on the 601 to give me a good exposure, obviously with compensation for backlighting etc.

With the D70, unless its it bright light, I find that to get a decent result I need to shoot in raw, chimp histograms and watch the blinkies (usually applying 0.3 to 0.7 positive exposure comp) and then having to mess with curves in PP to get rid of the flatness. And I DONT enjoy doing PP!!

The P&S4.1 custom curve does fix a number of grumbles I have regards the look of the picture, but if you are shooting in raw, you then need to use that wretched NC to pull the settings in from the camera.

So, yes, while I agree that he's being a twit, I also do feel that dSLR's are a pain in the ass too.

By the way, as much as I grumble about it, when I do get it right, I get some stunning images with my D70; I just do feel that things generally are somewhat more difficult than they should be at times.

Dug - what do you mean the camera doesn't take the photo !!!!! LOL

I don't think I've ever laughed this hard reading a post .... and yes, I know someone like this, and that makes it even funnier!!!!!

Jeff, you said

I have suggested that he take-up painting. This would give him full control of the subject focus, depth of field, brightness, contrast, color depth, etc. And he won't even have to turn on his computer.

- I've got a better idea - tell him to take up FACE painting, and then get whoever he wants a 'photo' of to press their face up to a piece of paper - hey presto = and he won't have a problem.

Rel

Please please keep updating this post - I've laughed so hard I have to go to the loo !!!!!!

Dug wrote:Jeff I would be happy to send you a list of what images are film and what are shot on digital to make it fair!

Impressive site. A list would be great. When the timing is right I will set him to task.

-jeff

blacknstormy wrote::shock: Dug - what do you mean the camera doesn't take the photo !!!!! LOL

I don't think I've ever laughed this hard reading a post .... and yes, I know someone like this, and that makes it even funnier!!!!!

Jeff, you said

I have suggested that he take-up painting. This would give him full control of the subject focus, depth of field, brightness, contrast, color depth, etc. And he won't even have to turn on his computer.

- I've got a better idea - tell him to take up FACE painting, and then get whoever he wants a 'photo' of to press their face up to a piece of paper - hey presto = and he won't have a problem.

Rel

Please please keep updating this post - I've laughed so hard I have to go to the loo !!!!!!

I'm still somewhat surprised how this post has come along from the first post so long ago. I will be sure to keep you updated, but at this point I'm having my doubts that I will hear much more from him.

-jeff

blacknstormy wrote::shock: Dug - what do you mean the camera doesn't take the photo !!!!! LOL

Seriously cameras do not take photos, if you leave a camera alone it will just sit there and do nothing. Try it !!!! cameras are lazier than I am

If you want a camera to take a photo YOU have to take the photo or set up a system to get the camera to take a photo cameras by themselves do nothing!!!!!

thehikingdude wrote:Impressive site. A list would be great. When the timing is right I will set him to task.

-jeff

I'll work on it and send it to you if he wants to bet his D70 against my Nikon FM tell him the bet is ON!

Here's the latest from today: My "friend" sends me an article from Nikon regarding their commitment to digital cameras rather than film, except for the F6. He now states that Nikon will be out of business within 10 years.

I replied that their business decisions are based on sales of digital cameras as compared to film. His reply was that they will be bought out by an entry-level Chinese based disposable camera company before we know it.

I give up!!!!!

thehikingdude wrote: He now states that Nikon will be out of business within 10 years.

Well if they keep selling crappy cameras like the D70, I wouldn't be the least bit suprised.

You should respond with a link to this thread.